bozz_2006
14 years ago
Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to be critical of a play that didn't work. Not so easy to call plays that always do work.
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evad04
14 years ago

Buncha playcallin' experts on these boards. Interesting, seeing as no one here spends 80 hours a week designing and implementing game plans.

Honestly, the level of depth that goes into offensive and defensive schemes is ASTOUNDING.

And thus SIMPLY it is almost impossible to be legitimately critical of playcalling. One simply does not possess the requisite mastery of concepts, nor is one capable to confer the success or lack of success of a playcall because the of the multitude of variables.

I don't claim any brilliance, but conversations like the one Greg C started about this topic indicate that there's usually more to a play than what immediately catches the eye.

How can someone be critical of something they don't understand? Seriously? Riddle me that -- I'll bake you a cake, a cookie, whatever you prefer. I'll wash your car. I'll get a tramp stamp. I'll take a "Croc Shot" and send it to my employers.

Even if you were the star receiver on your high school team, or you played guard at the junior-college level, or if you play a lot of Madden (like I used to), or if you're just a MMQB or keyboard warrior -- you're probably not qualified to critique playcalling at the level appropriate to be considered legitimate.

"Greg C." wrote:



I mostly agree with you on this, but I do think there is some room for fans to be critical. The reason is that although coaches know a lot more about playcalling than any of us do, they are human and they are prone to making human mistakes--overanalyzing, being too cautious, getting into ruts, that sort of thing. The problem is that it is usually difficult for fans to determine whether coaches are really making those mistakes or whether they are calling the right plays based on information that we are not aware of, and the plays just are not working for one reason or another.

But there are patterns that emerge after awhile. For example, I have no faith in Marty Schottenheimer's playcalling in clutch situations, having watched his teams choke in the playoffs for years. Some people feel that way about Mike McCarthy. There have been times when I've wanted McCarthy to close out games more aggressively than he has, but I don't see it as a major concern. Most NFL coaches are more conservative than fans in those situations.

"evad04" wrote:


Bingo. It is very difficult to know the intentions and full context of what goes into a decision. This difficulty is conveniently sidestepped by most fans, though, and the issue to me isn't the small amount of space made for criticism but rather the vast expanse of amateurish know-it-all-ness.

Now, in the case of Schottenheimer the whole "Martyball" thing is pretty well-known. He often got extremely conservative at the most crucial moments. This tendency, you could argue, came mostly from his expertise as a defensive minded coach (a common misnomer). That said, his overall blueprint was hugely successful.

In McCarthy's case there are isolated incidents of similar conservatism but on the whole they are mostly incomparable to Marty. McCarthy's scheme itself is on a totally different evolved plane. How many times do we credit the scheme for its aggressiveness or ability to create mismatches? We don't. Most fans take the position that Green Bay's talent overcomes McCarthy's ineptitude. It is ludicrous to me, and I imagine that sentiment would be equally-not-more-ridiculous to NFL scouts and former-and-current head coaches who praise him.

There's an extent to which being critical of playcalling is a bedrock of experiencing football. I participate the same way -- I'm guilty of the very thing I'm arguing against. The point here is just to know that my criticisms can only hold so much weight -- very little.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
zombieslayer
14 years ago

Really guys why do you think Mike McCarthy is a bad coach?He turned Aaron Rodgers into what he is today,He is a good offensive minded coach.Lets not forget he hired Capers and Kevin Greene only one thats suspect is slocum.His record as a coach is 42-29 not to shaby.

"Finley88Beast" wrote:



I guess every team that doesn't win a Super Bowl should fire their coach immediately.

31 coaches last year should have been fired.
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yooperfan
14 years ago
TT has job security in Green Bay for as long as he wants to stay and he and MM are joined at the waist so MM does as well.
Under Ted Thompson the Packers will have a winning record most years and will win a division championship periodically, even make the playoffs now and again.
The problem is that under Ted Thompson the Packers will never get to the Superbowl because he won't roll the dice using free agency or trades to add the necessary piece or pieces to get the Packers over the top.

Building through the draft is an admiral plan but every once in a while the dice have to be rolled or that's all that is ever done is building for the future.
At some point the future is now.

Sorry for my interruption, let the Ted Thompson lovefest continue.
yooperfan
14 years ago
Oh yeah, no matter what, every home game will be sold out for years to come.
zombieslayer
14 years ago
Yooper - I can almost guarantee you that upper management is aware we have a significant injury problem this year and they've been on the phone with other teams.

This year has been our strongest chance to win it all since 2007. They know this.

Now what we need are other teams that are desperate enough to do something stupid so we can take advantage of it. Our biggest priority right now shouldn't have been going after M. Lynch, but replacing our SS. If Nick Barnett is out for the year as well, we'll need a MLB as well.

Just like picking up babes, if you appear desperate, you will be exploited.
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PackFanWithTwins
14 years ago

Ted Thompson has job security in Green Bay for as long as he wants to stay and he and Mike McCarthy are joined at the waist so Mike McCarthy does as well.
Under Ted Thompson the Packers will have a winning record most years and will win a division championship periodically, even make the playoffs now and again.
The problem is that under Ted Thompson the Packers will never get to the Superbowl because he won't roll the dice using free agency or trades to add the necessary piece or pieces to get the Packers over the top.

Building through the draft is an admiral plan but every once in a while the dice have to be rolled or that's all that is ever done is building for the future.
At some point the future is now.

Sorry for my interruption, let the Ted Thompson lovefest continue.

"yooperfan" wrote:



I agree mostly, but in the end, FA or not, I look, did Ted supply players to win a SB. If mccarthy messes with those players, that is on McCarthy. Biggest Gripe I will have with Ted after this season, win or lose is not canning Mccarthy.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
yooperfan
14 years ago

Yooper - I can almost guarantee you that upper management is aware we have a significant injury problem this year and they've been on the phone with other teams.

This year has been our strongest chance to win it all since 2007. They know this.

Now what we need are other teams that are desperate enough to do something stupid so we can take advantage of it. Our biggest priority right now shouldn't have been going after M. Lynch, but replacing our SS. If Nick Barnett is out for the year as well, we'll need a MLB as well.

Just like picking up babes, if you appear desperate, you will be exploited.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Slayer you are one of my favorite contributors, but I SO disagree with you on your stance on the running game.

If Ted Thompson is not on the phone, I'd be more disappointed in him than I have been since he was hired. We are getting to the point of being desperate with all the injuries and no running game.
But then I don't know about desperation because I have had the good fortune of never having been desperate.
zombieslayer
14 years ago
MM's best season when it came to playcalling was 2007. Loved his playcalling that year.

He's also one heck of a developer for QBs. He salvaged Favre's career and helped build Rodgers into an elite QB.

I am against canning him. But I do think there are parts of his game that could be improved. My biggest beef with MM is that he needs to go for the throat when the opponent is on the ropes.

In his defense, he tried that against the Lions and the pass got picked off. but like a few others have said, I believe in living and dying by aggression. What I hate is when we go soft. I like pounding your opponents like Belichick does. Or last year when the Vikings beat the Cows, the game was already over and Favre threw his 4th TD. Got the Cows so pissed off that one of the Cows ran onto the field and had some unkind words directed at the Vikings.

I love that. Shoot 'em in the head when he's down to make sure he's dead. I wish MM would do that.
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zombieslayer
14 years ago



Slayer you are one of my favorite contributors, but I SO disagree with you on your stance on the running game.

If Ted Thompson is not on the phone, I'd be more disappointed in him than I have been since he was hired. We are getting to the point of being desperate with all the injuries and no running game.
But then I don't know about desperation because I have had the good fortune of never having been desperate.

"yooperfan" wrote:



Yooper - Ted dropped the ball with Lynch. Had I known that that was all it would take to get Lynch, we should have signed the papers. Lynch is dang good in screens. I saw him at UC Berkeley.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡น ๐Ÿ‡ฒ๐Ÿ‡ฒ ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ท
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