Mucky Tundra
a year ago
The Year the NFL Banned Two of its Biggest Stars for Gambling 

When the Saints lost to the Vikings in the NFL wild-card round in January 2020, it marked a disappointing end to a season that started with swollen hopes. It signified another lost opportunity for Drew Brees to win a second Super Bowl. It also meant that Hall of Famer Paul Hornung had lost a bet he’d placed at the start of the season.

Man Makes Wager On the NFL is not exactly a news flash, given that NFL games come swaddled with ads for betting apps and websites and operators, and millions of Americans have action on football each week. But when, in 2019, Hornung cut the ribbon on a new sportsbook in Indiana and, for a ceremonial first bet, picked the Saints to win the Lombardi Trophy, it marked a significant moving of the cultural chains.



“What are you going to do?” Lombardi asked.

Rozelle explained that a ban of at least one full season was in order.

“You have no choice, do you?” Lombardi asked.

“I don’t think so, Vinny,” Rozelle replied. “Let’s go get a drink.”



Underrated comedy. Rozelle suspends Hornung effectively torpedoing GBs chance at a threepeat and without missing a beat suggests grabbing a drink with Lombardi. Can you imagine MLF having casual drinks with Roger Goodell outside an official NFL event (or any other coach for that matter)?
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
a year ago

Currently nothing is stopping the Agents from Gambling, not criminal law, nor contract law.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


I believe the article says the opposite of your claim

The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.



And here is their follow up article in the same subject. 

Earlier today, we pointed out that the NFL’s gambling policy has no application to agents , and that the NFL Players Association has no gambling policy for the contract advisors it regulates. 

Beyond the issue of agents using their own unique information to place bets, they could also (in theory) sell that information to those who make wagers. 

In response to our story, a high-level team executive pointed out something we failed to mention, but should have. Agents always know which injured clients will or won’t be playing. 

“Players always tell their agents if they are playing or not prior to game or night before,” the source said. “Imagine how that could swing things.” 

Indeed it could. Currently, most agents simply give that information to the reporters who constantly try to one-up each other on Twitter. If the agents who know a given client’s actual status opts to not spill the beans to a reporter but to use it for the purposes of betting — either directly or indirectly — that could be powerful information.

It’s all the more reason for the league and union to work together to devise effective strategies for preventing that information from being misused.


UserPostedImage
a year ago
Beast reiterated: 

 The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.

You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago

Beast reiterated:  You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



What's in the Collective Bargaining Agreement?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
a year ago
Nope, none of that CURRENTLY applies to an agent nor players/agent relationships and the players are not getting in trouble for telling the agents about their health status including weather they believe they're playing or not.

None of that stuff CURRENTLY applies to agents.

I agree with you, that it probably should apply, but none of that CURRENTLY seems to apply based on the information we currently have.
​​​​


Plus let's get real here, even if it did apply. An Agent that wants to gamble they should be smart enough to do it through a 3rd party which has a different set of accounts. It's basically the same way they unofficially negotiate some things, when they're not allowed to directly negotiating. 

Like when the Broncos were looking for a QB and Jon Elway just happened to be at the same place as Aaron Rodgers multiple times.

Or when the Dolphins were reportedly trying to get Brady to sign, they got a 3rd party to do it (but got caught, but only because their head coach followed the rules and told on them in a lawsuit AFTER he was fired).

Or the Raiders getting UFC President Dana White to act as a middle man to work out a deal with Tom Brady (that Jon Gruden decided not to follow).



There is CURRENTLY no Nation Wide rules or Punishment (or Players punishment) for Agents freely gambling at will. 

Though I figure Gambling Sites would cut the gambler off as soon as they figure out there is such a connection, as they can deny bets to people (such as Dana White is banned from a number of Casinos just because he plays and wins such expensive stakes at Black Jack). 

And even if there was a rule, it would be easy for them to get around. Just use a middle man bookie. 
UserPostedImage
a year ago
if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago
Maybe email Troy Vincent or Demarcus whatever his name is. Or ask Demovsky or one of these guys. They could track it down if they don't already know. Probly looking for things to write about for the next week or two. 
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
a year ago
I found this NFLPA contract link on the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm 

Its a start!!

I will see what I can find Official Policy Statements
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



*Facepalm* You making a mountain outta a mole hill.

​​​​​​
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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