Mucky Tundra
a year ago
The Year the NFL Banned Two of its Biggest Stars for Gambling 

When the Saints lost to the Vikings in the NFL wild-card round in January 2020, it marked a disappointing end to a season that started with swollen hopes. It signified another lost opportunity for Drew Brees to win a second Super Bowl. It also meant that Hall of Famer Paul Hornung had lost a bet he’d placed at the start of the season.

Man Makes Wager On the NFL is not exactly a news flash, given that NFL games come swaddled with ads for betting apps and websites and operators, and millions of Americans have action on football each week. But when, in 2019, Hornung cut the ribbon on a new sportsbook in Indiana and, for a ceremonial first bet, picked the Saints to win the Lombardi Trophy, it marked a significant moving of the cultural chains.



“What are you going to do?” Lombardi asked.

Rozelle explained that a ban of at least one full season was in order.

“You have no choice, do you?” Lombardi asked.

“I don’t think so, Vinny,” Rozelle replied. “Let’s go get a drink.”



Underrated comedy. Rozelle suspends Hornung effectively torpedoing GBs chance at a threepeat and without missing a beat suggests grabbing a drink with Lombardi. Can you imagine MLF having casual drinks with Roger Goodell outside an official NFL event (or any other coach for that matter)?
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
a year ago

Currently nothing is stopping the Agents from Gambling, not criminal law, nor contract law.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


I believe the article says the opposite of your claim

The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.



And here is their follow up article in the same subject. 

Earlier today, we pointed out that the NFL’s gambling policy has no application to agents , and that the NFL Players Association has no gambling policy for the contract advisors it regulates. 

Beyond the issue of agents using their own unique information to place bets, they could also (in theory) sell that information to those who make wagers. 

In response to our story, a high-level team executive pointed out something we failed to mention, but should have. Agents always know which injured clients will or won’t be playing. 

“Players always tell their agents if they are playing or not prior to game or night before,” the source said. “Imagine how that could swing things.” 

Indeed it could. Currently, most agents simply give that information to the reporters who constantly try to one-up each other on Twitter. If the agents who know a given client’s actual status opts to not spill the beans to a reporter but to use it for the purposes of betting — either directly or indirectly — that could be powerful information.

It’s all the more reason for the league and union to work together to devise effective strategies for preventing that information from being misused.


UserPostedImage
a year ago
Beast reiterated: 

 The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.

You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago

Beast reiterated:  You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



What's in the Collective Bargaining Agreement?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
a year ago
Nope, none of that CURRENTLY applies to an agent nor players/agent relationships and the players are not getting in trouble for telling the agents about their health status including weather they believe they're playing or not.

None of that stuff CURRENTLY applies to agents.

I agree with you, that it probably should apply, but none of that CURRENTLY seems to apply based on the information we currently have.
​​​​


Plus let's get real here, even if it did apply. An Agent that wants to gamble they should be smart enough to do it through a 3rd party which has a different set of accounts. It's basically the same way they unofficially negotiate some things, when they're not allowed to directly negotiating. 

Like when the Broncos were looking for a QB and Jon Elway just happened to be at the same place as Aaron Rodgers multiple times.

Or when the Dolphins were reportedly trying to get Brady to sign, they got a 3rd party to do it (but got caught, but only because their head coach followed the rules and told on them in a lawsuit AFTER he was fired).

Or the Raiders getting UFC President Dana White to act as a middle man to work out a deal with Tom Brady (that Jon Gruden decided not to follow).



There is CURRENTLY no Nation Wide rules or Punishment (or Players punishment) for Agents freely gambling at will. 

Though I figure Gambling Sites would cut the gambler off as soon as they figure out there is such a connection, as they can deny bets to people (such as Dana White is banned from a number of Casinos just because he plays and wins such expensive stakes at Black Jack). 

And even if there was a rule, it would be easy for them to get around. Just use a middle man bookie. 
UserPostedImage
a year ago
if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago
Maybe email Troy Vincent or Demarcus whatever his name is. Or ask Demovsky or one of these guys. They could track it down if they don't already know. Probly looking for things to write about for the next week or two. 
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
a year ago
I found this NFLPA contract link on the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm 

Its a start!!

I will see what I can find Official Policy Statements
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



*Facepalm* You making a mountain outta a mole hill.

​​​​​​
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (1h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (1h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (1h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (10h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (11h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (11h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (14h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!
beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Right now it looks like the only prime worthy games are Det-Minny and KC-Denver (if Denver can clinch a wild card spot)
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : LaFleur "opportunity that Ted Thompson thought was too good to pass up"
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Jordan Love pick was Ted Thompson's idea.
Mucky Tundra (19-Dec) : Kyle Shanahan on signing De'Vondre Campbell as a FA last offseason: “We obviously made a mistake.”
packerfanoutwest (19-Dec) : Alexander’s last season with GB
Martha Careful (18-Dec) : if I were a professional athlete, I would probably look to see who the agent is for Kirk Cousins and then use him
beast (18-Dec) : $100 million fully guaranteed Kirk Cousins gets benched for rookie
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : a lower case b
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : The real lie is how beast capitalized his name in his message while it's normally spelled with
packerfanoutwest (18-Dec) : haha that's a lie
beast (17-Dec) : Despite what lies other might tell, Beast didn't hate the Winter Warnings, it felt refreshing to Beast for some reason.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : whiteout uniforms in general are pretty lame and weak. NFL greed at it's worst
Martha Careful (17-Dec) : The Viking uniforms, the whiteout uniforms specifically absolutely suck
beast (17-Dec) : Thanks Zero2Cool, looks a lot better now
beast (17-Dec) : Seems like someone has a crush on me, can't stop talking about me
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : Should be gooder now. The forum default theme went to goofy land.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : What the hell
packerfanoutwest (17-Dec) : yeah beast hates the Winter Warning Unies
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Okay I'm glad to know it's not just something happening to me lol
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Zero, did you copy the Packers uniforms from last night and white out the board?
beast (16-Dec) : Oh crap, is the board going to the Winter Warning Uniforms too?!? It's all white on white right now!
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : WR Odell Beckham Jr is officially a free agent after clearing waivers.
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