Mucky Tundra
a year ago
The Year the NFL Banned Two of its Biggest Stars for Gambling 

When the Saints lost to the Vikings in the NFL wild-card round in January 2020, it marked a disappointing end to a season that started with swollen hopes. It signified another lost opportunity for Drew Brees to win a second Super Bowl. It also meant that Hall of Famer Paul Hornung had lost a bet he’d placed at the start of the season.

Man Makes Wager On the NFL is not exactly a news flash, given that NFL games come swaddled with ads for betting apps and websites and operators, and millions of Americans have action on football each week. But when, in 2019, Hornung cut the ribbon on a new sportsbook in Indiana and, for a ceremonial first bet, picked the Saints to win the Lombardi Trophy, it marked a significant moving of the cultural chains.



“What are you going to do?” Lombardi asked.

Rozelle explained that a ban of at least one full season was in order.

“You have no choice, do you?” Lombardi asked.

“I don’t think so, Vinny,” Rozelle replied. “Let’s go get a drink.”



Underrated comedy. Rozelle suspends Hornung effectively torpedoing GBs chance at a threepeat and without missing a beat suggests grabbing a drink with Lombardi. Can you imagine MLF having casual drinks with Roger Goodell outside an official NFL event (or any other coach for that matter)?
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
a year ago

Currently nothing is stopping the Agents from Gambling, not criminal law, nor contract law.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


I believe the article says the opposite of your claim

The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.



And here is their follow up article in the same subject. 

Earlier today, we pointed out that the NFL’s gambling policy has no application to agents , and that the NFL Players Association has no gambling policy for the contract advisors it regulates. 

Beyond the issue of agents using their own unique information to place bets, they could also (in theory) sell that information to those who make wagers. 

In response to our story, a high-level team executive pointed out something we failed to mention, but should have. Agents always know which injured clients will or won’t be playing. 

“Players always tell their agents if they are playing or not prior to game or night before,” the source said. “Imagine how that could swing things.” 

Indeed it could. Currently, most agents simply give that information to the reporters who constantly try to one-up each other on Twitter. If the agents who know a given client’s actual status opts to not spill the beans to a reporter but to use it for the purposes of betting — either directly or indirectly — that could be powerful information.

It’s all the more reason for the league and union to work together to devise effective strategies for preventing that information from being misused.


UserPostedImage
a year ago
Beast reiterated: 

 The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.

You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago

Beast reiterated:  You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



What's in the Collective Bargaining Agreement?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
a year ago
Nope, none of that CURRENTLY applies to an agent nor players/agent relationships and the players are not getting in trouble for telling the agents about their health status including weather they believe they're playing or not.

None of that stuff CURRENTLY applies to agents.

I agree with you, that it probably should apply, but none of that CURRENTLY seems to apply based on the information we currently have.
​​​​


Plus let's get real here, even if it did apply. An Agent that wants to gamble they should be smart enough to do it through a 3rd party which has a different set of accounts. It's basically the same way they unofficially negotiate some things, when they're not allowed to directly negotiating. 

Like when the Broncos were looking for a QB and Jon Elway just happened to be at the same place as Aaron Rodgers multiple times.

Or when the Dolphins were reportedly trying to get Brady to sign, they got a 3rd party to do it (but got caught, but only because their head coach followed the rules and told on them in a lawsuit AFTER he was fired).

Or the Raiders getting UFC President Dana White to act as a middle man to work out a deal with Tom Brady (that Jon Gruden decided not to follow).



There is CURRENTLY no Nation Wide rules or Punishment (or Players punishment) for Agents freely gambling at will. 

Though I figure Gambling Sites would cut the gambler off as soon as they figure out there is such a connection, as they can deny bets to people (such as Dana White is banned from a number of Casinos just because he plays and wins such expensive stakes at Black Jack). 

And even if there was a rule, it would be easy for them to get around. Just use a middle man bookie. 
UserPostedImage
a year ago
if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago
Maybe email Troy Vincent or Demarcus whatever his name is. Or ask Demovsky or one of these guys. They could track it down if they don't already know. Probly looking for things to write about for the next week or two. 
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
a year ago
I found this NFLPA contract link on the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm 

Its a start!!

I will see what I can find Official Policy Statements
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



*Facepalm* You making a mountain outta a mole hill.

​​​​​​
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Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : ... It clearly was not what we were supposed to be in, certainly."
Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : Hafley says 3rd and 11 call there was a miscommunication.
Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : The only team I know is Texas from that. Who are the other three?
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Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : E. Cooper. Rookie of Month. Defense.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : @AaronNagler · 2m Both Jordan Love and Malik Willis were Limited participants at Packers practice today.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
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beast (8-Jan) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, but is Kampman and the others in the NFL Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (8-Jan) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Yeah, he's in the ring of honor, just saw video and his name is up there
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (8-Jan) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (8-Jan) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (8-Jan) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Chicago Bears have asked the Dallas Cowboys permission to interview Mike McCarthy for head coaching vacancy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : The winners page that is
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beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
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Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Even when GB got pressure he was throwing darts; vs no pressure on that last pass he just air mails an open guy
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