Mucky Tundra
a year ago
The Year the NFL Banned Two of its Biggest Stars for Gambling 

When the Saints lost to the Vikings in the NFL wild-card round in January 2020, it marked a disappointing end to a season that started with swollen hopes. It signified another lost opportunity for Drew Brees to win a second Super Bowl. It also meant that Hall of Famer Paul Hornung had lost a bet he’d placed at the start of the season.

Man Makes Wager On the NFL is not exactly a news flash, given that NFL games come swaddled with ads for betting apps and websites and operators, and millions of Americans have action on football each week. But when, in 2019, Hornung cut the ribbon on a new sportsbook in Indiana and, for a ceremonial first bet, picked the Saints to win the Lombardi Trophy, it marked a significant moving of the cultural chains.



“What are you going to do?” Lombardi asked.

Rozelle explained that a ban of at least one full season was in order.

“You have no choice, do you?” Lombardi asked.

“I don’t think so, Vinny,” Rozelle replied. “Let’s go get a drink.”



Underrated comedy. Rozelle suspends Hornung effectively torpedoing GBs chance at a threepeat and without missing a beat suggests grabbing a drink with Lombardi. Can you imagine MLF having casual drinks with Roger Goodell outside an official NFL event (or any other coach for that matter)?
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
a year ago

Currently nothing is stopping the Agents from Gambling, not criminal law, nor contract law.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


I believe the article says the opposite of your claim

The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.



And here is their follow up article in the same subject. 

Earlier today, we pointed out that the NFL’s gambling policy has no application to agents , and that the NFL Players Association has no gambling policy for the contract advisors it regulates. 

Beyond the issue of agents using their own unique information to place bets, they could also (in theory) sell that information to those who make wagers. 

In response to our story, a high-level team executive pointed out something we failed to mention, but should have. Agents always know which injured clients will or won’t be playing. 

“Players always tell their agents if they are playing or not prior to game or night before,” the source said. “Imagine how that could swing things.” 

Indeed it could. Currently, most agents simply give that information to the reporters who constantly try to one-up each other on Twitter. If the agents who know a given client’s actual status opts to not spill the beans to a reporter but to use it for the purposes of betting — either directly or indirectly — that could be powerful information.

It’s all the more reason for the league and union to work together to devise effective strategies for preventing that information from being misused.


UserPostedImage
a year ago
Beast reiterated: 

 The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.

You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago

Beast reiterated:  You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



What's in the Collective Bargaining Agreement?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
a year ago
Nope, none of that CURRENTLY applies to an agent nor players/agent relationships and the players are not getting in trouble for telling the agents about their health status including weather they believe they're playing or not.

None of that stuff CURRENTLY applies to agents.

I agree with you, that it probably should apply, but none of that CURRENTLY seems to apply based on the information we currently have.
​​​​


Plus let's get real here, even if it did apply. An Agent that wants to gamble they should be smart enough to do it through a 3rd party which has a different set of accounts. It's basically the same way they unofficially negotiate some things, when they're not allowed to directly negotiating. 

Like when the Broncos were looking for a QB and Jon Elway just happened to be at the same place as Aaron Rodgers multiple times.

Or when the Dolphins were reportedly trying to get Brady to sign, they got a 3rd party to do it (but got caught, but only because their head coach followed the rules and told on them in a lawsuit AFTER he was fired).

Or the Raiders getting UFC President Dana White to act as a middle man to work out a deal with Tom Brady (that Jon Gruden decided not to follow).



There is CURRENTLY no Nation Wide rules or Punishment (or Players punishment) for Agents freely gambling at will. 

Though I figure Gambling Sites would cut the gambler off as soon as they figure out there is such a connection, as they can deny bets to people (such as Dana White is banned from a number of Casinos just because he plays and wins such expensive stakes at Black Jack). 

And even if there was a rule, it would be easy for them to get around. Just use a middle man bookie. 
UserPostedImage
a year ago
if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
a year ago
Maybe email Troy Vincent or Demarcus whatever his name is. Or ask Demovsky or one of these guys. They could track it down if they don't already know. Probly looking for things to write about for the next week or two. 
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
a year ago
I found this NFLPA contract link on the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm 

Its a start!!

I will see what I can find Official Policy Statements
Go Packers!!!!
beast
a year ago

if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



*Facepalm* You making a mountain outta a mole hill.

​​​​​​
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
beast (16h) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
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