Mucky Tundra
2 years ago
The Year the NFL Banned Two of its Biggest Stars for Gambling 

When the Saints lost to the Vikings in the NFL wild-card round in January 2020, it marked a disappointing end to a season that started with swollen hopes. It signified another lost opportunity for Drew Brees to win a second Super Bowl. It also meant that Hall of Famer Paul Hornung had lost a bet he’d placed at the start of the season.

Man Makes Wager On the NFL is not exactly a news flash, given that NFL games come swaddled with ads for betting apps and websites and operators, and millions of Americans have action on football each week. But when, in 2019, Hornung cut the ribbon on a new sportsbook in Indiana and, for a ceremonial first bet, picked the Saints to win the Lombardi Trophy, it marked a significant moving of the cultural chains.



“What are you going to do?” Lombardi asked.

Rozelle explained that a ban of at least one full season was in order.

“You have no choice, do you?” Lombardi asked.

“I don’t think so, Vinny,” Rozelle replied. “Let’s go get a drink.”



Underrated comedy. Rozelle suspends Hornung effectively torpedoing GBs chance at a threepeat and without missing a beat suggests grabbing a drink with Lombardi. Can you imagine MLF having casual drinks with Roger Goodell outside an official NFL event (or any other coach for that matter)?
Under Construction!
2 years ago

Currently nothing is stopping the Agents from Gambling, not criminal law, nor contract law.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.
Go Packers!!!!
beast
2 years ago

Per the orignal article you posted, there is.  They are, via their contracts with players, "NFL Personnel".   NPL Personnel are precluded from gambling.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 


I believe the article says the opposite of your claim

The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.



And here is their follow up article in the same subject. 

Earlier today, we pointed out that the NFL’s gambling policy has no application to agents , and that the NFL Players Association has no gambling policy for the contract advisors it regulates. 

Beyond the issue of agents using their own unique information to place bets, they could also (in theory) sell that information to those who make wagers. 

In response to our story, a high-level team executive pointed out something we failed to mention, but should have. Agents always know which injured clients will or won’t be playing. 

“Players always tell their agents if they are playing or not prior to game or night before,” the source said. “Imagine how that could swing things.” 

Indeed it could. Currently, most agents simply give that information to the reporters who constantly try to one-up each other on Twitter. If the agents who know a given client’s actual status opts to not spill the beans to a reporter but to use it for the purposes of betting — either directly or indirectly — that could be powerful information.

It’s all the more reason for the league and union to work together to devise effective strategies for preventing that information from being misused.


UserPostedImage
2 years ago
Beast reiterated: 

 The NFL’s gambling policy applies to a broad range of “NFL Personnel.” The policy does not apply to agents.

You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
2 years ago

Beast reiterated:  You are absolutely correct.  That was a mis-read on my part.

Nevertheless, agents cannot gamble on games, especially using information from the player which would not be known to the public, or their clients (the player) will suffer the consequences. 

As I understand the NFL policy on gambling:  “All NFL Personnel other than Players are further prohibited from placing, soliciting, or facilitating bets on any other professional (e.g., NBA, MLB, NHL, PGA, USTA, MLS), college (e.g., NCAA basketball), international (e.g., World Baseball Classic, World Cup), or Olympic sports competition, tournament or event.”

NFL players and personnel are not allowed to engage in gambling in NFL facilities, disclose any nonpublic NFL information, enter a sportsbook during the NFL season, or maintain any social, business or personal relationships with sports gamblers.

So what that means is, although the agent does not suffer the consequences of gambling with non public NFL information, the player who disclosed the information or has association will suffer the consequences.

Such is the nature of contract law.

Let’s say I built a house and I used the general contractor to acquire all the labor and materials used in the house.   If my windows leaked, I would have no legal standing to sue the manufacturer of the windows (or in the NFL's case, the agent). I would have to sue my builder to get compensation as my contractual standing was with the builder, not the window manufacturer. Again, such is the nature of contract law.

This is the case with the NFL player whose contract is with the NFL. For recourse against the agent either using materially non public information OR as a gambler is in association with the player (in this case the agent), the NFL's only recourse is against the player.

So the agents gambling IS a violation of contract law,  but it is the player who pays the penalty.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



What's in the Collective Bargaining Agreement?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
2 years ago
Nope, none of that CURRENTLY applies to an agent nor players/agent relationships and the players are not getting in trouble for telling the agents about their health status including weather they believe they're playing or not.

None of that stuff CURRENTLY applies to agents.

I agree with you, that it probably should apply, but none of that CURRENTLY seems to apply based on the information we currently have.
​​​​


Plus let's get real here, even if it did apply. An Agent that wants to gamble they should be smart enough to do it through a 3rd party which has a different set of accounts. It's basically the same way they unofficially negotiate some things, when they're not allowed to directly negotiating. 

Like when the Broncos were looking for a QB and Jon Elway just happened to be at the same place as Aaron Rodgers multiple times.

Or when the Dolphins were reportedly trying to get Brady to sign, they got a 3rd party to do it (but got caught, but only because their head coach followed the rules and told on them in a lawsuit AFTER he was fired).

Or the Raiders getting UFC President Dana White to act as a middle man to work out a deal with Tom Brady (that Jon Gruden decided not to follow).



There is CURRENTLY no Nation Wide rules or Punishment (or Players punishment) for Agents freely gambling at will. 

Though I figure Gambling Sites would cut the gambler off as soon as they figure out there is such a connection, as they can deny bets to people (such as Dana White is banned from a number of Casinos just because he plays and wins such expensive stakes at Black Jack). 

And even if there was a rule, it would be easy for them to get around. Just use a middle man bookie. 
UserPostedImage
2 years ago
if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?
Go Packers!!!!
nerdmann
2 years ago
Maybe email Troy Vincent or Demarcus whatever his name is. Or ask Demovsky or one of these guys. They could track it down if they don't already know. Probly looking for things to write about for the next week or two. 
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
2 years ago
I found this NFLPA contract link on the SEC website:
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1573683/000104746913009713/a2216998zex-10_3.htm 

Its a start!!

I will see what I can find Official Policy Statements
Go Packers!!!!
beast
2 years ago

if there is no policy in place, and the NFL players agreement does not stipulate that players cannot associate with gamblers or provide confidential information then you would be correct.

I don’t have a copy of the agreement, but fron what from I pulled off the Internet for my last posting, that was a NFL policy, which would likely be covered/referred to in the NFL PA agreement.

so how do we get a copy of the agreement and NFL policy statements?

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



*Facepalm* You making a mountain outta a mole hill.

​​​​​​
UserPostedImage
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dfosterf (18-Aug) : We do have good depth at running back imo. Still so frustrating. Bitching about it is a futile excercise, which I plan to do anyway.
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Whoops, I thought Zero was saying it was a surprise the Brewers lost and not Lloyd being hurt
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : Not a surprise; inevitable
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : Brewers streak ends at 14
Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : SURPRISE
Mucky Tundra (17-Aug) : @mattschneidman Matt LaFleur on MarShawn Lloyd: “He’s gonna miss some time.”
Mucky Tundra (16-Aug) : CLIFFORD WITH THE TD WITH UNDER 2 TO GO!!!!!
Zero2Cool (16-Aug) : 90 MINUTES UNTIL FAKE KICKOFF!!
Martha Careful (16-Aug) : I think Ruven is a bot, but regardless should be stricken from the site.
Zero2Cool (14-Aug) : Packers RB Josh Jacobs ranked No. 33 in NFL 'Top 100'
dfosterf (13-Aug) : The LVN Musgrave collision- Andy Herman said Musgrave seemed to be the one most impacted injury-wise
dfosterf (13-Aug) : a lower back injury
dfosterf (13-Aug) : Doubs says he's "fine" after injury scare. Some reported it as z
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : With LVN that is; need to see what happens in the next practice
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : beast, reading about what happened, it sounded like one of those "two guys collide and are moving slow afterwards" type of deals
beast (12-Aug) : I believe Musgrave has been injured every single season since at least a Sophomore in highschool
packerfanoutwest (12-Aug) : Matt LaFleur: “Highly unlikely” Jordan Love plays more this preseason
dfosterf (12-Aug) : Doubs, Savion Williams, LVN, Musgrave all banged up to one degree or another, missing one here I forget
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : RB Tyrion Davis-Price is signing with the Green Bay Packers.
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : zero help, dominated. preseason
beast (12-Aug) : QB Jordan Love has surgery
beast (12-Aug) : Martha said Morgan had a lot of help, I didn't watch the OL so I can't say.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers LT Jordan Morgan did not allow a single pressure across 23 pass-blocking snaps vs. Jets last night, per PFF
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (10-Aug) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (10-Aug) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (10-Aug) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do good -- eh only preseason
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Mucky Tundra (9-Aug) : THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE PLAYING FOOTBALL TONIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!!
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Woo-hoo
TheKanataThrilla (9-Aug) : NFL Network is broadcasting the game tonight, but not in Canada. Not sure why as no local television is showing the game.
beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.
beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before
beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season
beast (8-Aug) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.
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