Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Way to get people to click on your thread, Zero ;)

Personally, I'd like to get a better view of what Harrell looks like when he's not running for his life.

Originally Posted by: Mr_Bumpy 



I'm starting to turn "sales"-ish in an effort to get some more folks contributing. :-)


When he's running for his life, does he have happy feet or is he keeping his calm?
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nerdmann
12 years ago
He's starting to look a little better under pressure. I don't like it when he gives up all that ground.

It's hard for us to judge his accuracy, because he's throwing to guess who A: don't necessarily know the offense that well and B: don't necessarily have a rhythmn with him.

Article from Ctv: 

What the Packers Need to See in Graham Harrell During Third Week of Preseason

On Thursday in Cincinnati, eyes will be carefully examining the extended look at the Packers No. 1 defense and the debut of running back Cedric Benson. But a major focus will again turn to backup Graham Harrell, who may have his most important snaps of his short NFL career coming in the second half.


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Pack93z
12 years ago

Why do you say this? And where does such an implied assumption come from? I am especially curious because I never once said anything of the sort and you have quoted my comment which stated Graham Harrell would have simply benefited with having another session of quarterback school.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Why?

Simply because of your viewpoint that his experience is limited to one offseason, when in reality he has been in the system (Offseason camps, Training Camps, weekly meetings and gameplans) since May of 2010.

To me.. two plus seasons of practices and meetings have more value than you view it with your "one offseason" statement. He has gotten to learn from and discuss with Rodgers during his mastering of the offense and learning right with him through film sessions and game plans.

He has gotten to see how Rodgers reads defenses.. runs through his progressions.. his decision making processes each and every week in film sessions and positional meetings.

Basically, from the way I read your statement, you are undervaluing his experience in the program based on joining one QB school late and only attending one in full.

In other words.. there is no way the Packers can expect to add a QB and have him remotely comfortable in the offense in time to have him serve as the primary backup option to Rodgers... that is without greatly affecting the available playbook to the gameplan each week. And in no way, expect him to be mentally more prepared to play for our offense than Harrell.

All this based on two preseason games in which he is basically running for his life each snap, unable to step into throws with any consistency and dealing with third and fourth string options at every turn all the while discounting how poor Matt Flynn or even Aaron Rodgers looked in similar situations in preseason. Yet how effective Flynn and Rodgers were in relief the same seasons when the talent around them was consistent and upgraded.

Look back to Rodgers preseason vs his performance verse the Cowboys in 2007.

Or Flynn last season and his performance vs the Pats in 2010. Or the Bears in 2011.

There is a huge difference in not only talent but actually having a gameplan to attack the opposition verse running different sets in which the primary objective probably is evaluating on group or another.

I would love to speak to his decision making ability, however I have no clue to the play call objective in preseason is.. nor what they are looking for him in terms of reads and decision making.

While a good portion of his throws have looked like wobbly ducks, lets look at his foot placement and body language on those.. was he able to set up. I have seen a nice drop in to Dale Moss in the opener on an out along the sideline.. I seen a rocket ball to an out to the newly acquired Andrew Brewer this pass weekend.

What I see is a guy the needs to settle down and play.. like he did in the hurry up week one. I don't expect him to look razor sharp this week either, as the starters are going to go deeper (unless they pull Rodgers specifically early) into the game and a ton of guys getting their last shot in the second half to make an impression.

If anything, I expect Harrell to look the best the last week of Preseason where he will more than likely get more of a run with the ones and two that are actually starting to run offenses to function over a play calling more geared for evaluations.

I said it last week.. I say it this week.. out of all the concerns the Packers have.. Harrell is not in the top 3 or probably top 5.

Off the top of my head.. I would rank these above it.

* With the amount of sets in which we play nickel and dime... solidifying the rotation and performance of the secondary.

* Establishing a solid and productive rotation for the Defensive line and backers for the differing game situations.

* Identifying a grouping of players that effectively can generate a pass rush.

* Finding and setting the offensive line depth with rotating in the replacement parts with the starters.

* Figuring out the Running Back situation and roles.

* Establishing a running game of any sort. So far this preseason, we have seen really little to nothing in terms of an effective running game. To me.. that is probably the most pressing of the offensive needs. With this alone we help minimize the risk we expose Rodgers to and thus requiring the use of Harrell/#2 QB.

Shall I continue?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Why?

Simply because of your viewpoint that his experience is limited to one offseason, when in reality he has been in the system (Offseason camps, Training Camps, weekly meetings and gameplans) since May of 2010.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I thought my viewpoint was Graham Harrell would benefit from having had two (or more) quarterback school sessions over one? Thanks for updating my own viewpoint, much appreciated.


Basically, from the way I read your statement, you are undervaluing his experience in the program based on joining one QB school late and only attending one in full.

In other words.. there is no way the Packers can expect to add a QB and have him remotely comfortable in the offense in time to have him serve as the primary backup option to Rodgers... that is without greatly affecting the available playbook to the gameplan each week. And in no way, expect him to be mentally more prepared to play for our offense than Harrell.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Then you sadly read my statement wrong and I have accepted fault for mistakenly saying offseason when referring to quarterback school. You know this as you have even quoted the edit in a previous post.


Look back to Rodgers preseason vs his performance verse the Cowboys in 2007.

Or Flynn last season and his performance vs the Pats in 2010. Or the Bears in 2011.

There is a huge difference in not only talent but actually having a gameplan to attack the opposition verse running different sets in which the primary objective probably is evaluating on group or another.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Look back on my posts in this very thread and you'll see I have mentioned the lackluster preseason performances from Matt Flynn and Aaron Rodgers already.



I would love to speak to his decision making ability, however I have no clue to the play call objective in preseason is.. nor what they are looking for him in terms of reads and decision making.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



As I said earlier in the thread, any comment on decision making is speculative.
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Pack93z
12 years ago
Not trying to change your viewpoint.. but honestly apparently trying to understand it. Stop taking it personal and see what I am saying..

If I wanted to just prove you wrong.. there are better topics than this. Thousands. [grin1]

First your statement he only has one offseason in experience doesn't help him.


.

Graham Harrell having only one offseason (e.g. Quarterback school) doesn't do him any favors either,

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Followed up by this.


What does being in the system (i.e. offense) have to do with the fact he's only had one off season with the Packers? I'll take fault here since I mistakenly assumed we knew why an offseason was beneficial to a quarterback for the Packers, but sure would be nice if you spent more time trying to understand rather than being hell bent on proving me wrong.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I am going to try one more time...

Take your second statement in this post.. which illustrates the point.

To you.. you only see one offseason of work. Basically.. I have read it a couple of times.. per this statement and your assumption the only value from the offseason is QB school.

Unless you want to explain "why an offseason was beneficial to a quarterback for the Packers." and where I am missing the boat.

What I am saying is simply.. there is more to an offseason work for a QB than "QB school". And he got all of 2010, TC 2011 and all of 2012.

Hence why I object to the he has one one offseason with the Packers; not to mention in season work over the past two season.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Not trying to change your viewpoint.. but honestly apparently trying to understand it. Stop taking it personal and see what I am saying..

If I wanted to just prove you wrong.. there are better topics than this. Thousands. [grin1]

First your statement he only has one offseason in experience doesn't help him.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I appreciate the use of Thousands rather than Millions.


I took fault for saying offseason when meaning quarterback school. All I'm saying I think Graham Harrell would be better off with having had the extra quarterback school session. I don't know how anyone can argue that. I'm not saying its more valuable than game experience or whatever you're saying here. All I said was having only one session did him no favors, thus meaning, another session would have done him some benefit. I just don't see how such a simple point can be construed into this ... although I am pleased with the views the thread has achieved. 🙂
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Pack93z
12 years ago
Did I mention that many are pulling the pin way to soon on Harrell?

Here.. there.. everywhere the finger of worry is pointing towards Harrell.

And it probably is a hot topic for me.

Not because I think Harrell is the only option..

It is because big picture in the success of the 2012 Packers has little to do with Harrell.. QB#2 regardless of his name.

If we can't run the ball.... Rodgers or no Rodgers.. we are screwed.

If the defense can't figure out how to at least slow people down and get off the field.. we are screwed.

If we can't figure out a pass rush... we are screwed.

If we don't stop dropping the ball in clutch situations... we may be screwed.

If we can't find some swagger and attitude.. we are screwed.

Hell.. even if we can't find Offensive lineman # 6 or 7.. someone that has a higher probability of playing meaningful snaps in 2012 on a long term basis... we are screwed.

But this over hyping of the QB's and especially the backup QB.. it is sickening.

This team has bigger concerns to worry about than QB#2... because no matter the name we trot out there.. more than likely we are screwed.

We are screwed = Not winning the Superbowl.

Did I ever mention just how sick I am of the over hyping of the glory boy QBs.. they are just another cog in the machine of a winning football team. Nothing more.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
12 years ago
I don't think it's as bad as you think. I seriously think if we fix the pass rush, everything else will fall into place. The secondary will start tackling better and our morale/swagger will be improved many times over.

But I STRONGLY agree with you that the #2 QB is the least of our concerns right now. It's so low of a concern that it's even less than fixing the running game.
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Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Did I mention that many are pulling the pin way to soon on Harrell?

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Quite possibly. But I said "when bashing Graham Harrell keep in mind Aaron Rodgers and Matt Flynn did not burn it up their first preseason games." ...


Backup QB is not a top priority, but I'd like to see Colt McCoy as a Packer rather than Graham Harrell. 🙂
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dhpackr
12 years ago
yes, I agree he will be cut. The guy just can not complete a pass down the field. Colt Mccoy may get cut himself, so why trade for a guy that has no team. also tavarous jackson may get cut from seattle. i know he is not a great player, but maybe nice backup for rodgers. ex-badger russel wilson is playing so well for seattle he may start over matt flynn. with flynn and wilson playing at a high level there maybe no need for jackson to be on the seahawks.

whether it is jackson, mccoy or maybe even kevin cobb in az. who maybe cut after two terrible pre-season games. all have better skills than harrell.
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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