You know what one of the best parts of winning this SB was?

mi_keys
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

14 years ago

Roethlisberger contributed an additional 31 yards, but those were all on protection breakdowns, not designed rushes.

I think this is a nonissue.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

It isn't an issue as far as the rushing game goes. In production that goes with the passing game. Earlier in the year we always discounted Rodgers rushing yards when we talked about how pathetic our run game was so it shouldn't be thrown in for the Steelers if you want to be consistent

MacBob,

You wanted to dismiss the drops because drops happen when you throw a lot. Yeah, they do but almost never with that frequency and with that much at stake. Most of them were wide open. They were not "bang bang plays" as you put it. They were routine catches for NFL receivers. A number of them were balls you'd expect a good high school receiver to catch. Two of them could have given us 3rd down conversions with 60+ yards each and at least one touchdown if not two (whether or not you think Jordy could have stayed on his feet for that first one, worst case if he catches it we have first and goal from the 😎. It should have been a blowout.

Also, you keep bringing up that they didn't score on special teams so that couldn't possibly be a factor. Aside from missing that field goal their special teams did outplay ours. They consistently had better field position from kickoffs. Two turnovers and the missed field goal gave us the ball at our 43, 45, and 47. Other than that we never started with it past our 25 and our average starting spot was the 20 in those other drives. Their average starting spot was the 29. Even with the turnovers and missed field goal their average starting position was a yard and a half better than ours. That's pretty telling for how much better their return game was.

Born and bred a cheesehead

nerdmann
100% (Exalted)
Premier Member

14 years ago

#42

It certainly was nice to see that we don't have to have a balanced attack to win the game. That's not to say that Starks didn't have a good game. He averaged just under 5 a carry, which is pretty damned good, but like people were saying before, the attempts are just as important as yardage. Rodgers showed that even when the toughest D in the league cuts loose and decides to go for the QB every play, he can still make big plays. If there hadn't been any drops..... this could have gone down as one of the top QB performances in SB history. Could have had 5 TD's. Incredible.

"peteralan71" wrote:

The reason there were so many drops IMO is that there were so many low percentage passes down the field. Run a high percentage offense and it IS a blowout. Holmgren already proved you "don't need" a running game. He counted screens and dumpoffs to the RBs as running plays.
We can get plenty of big plays throwing short, high percentage passes. Our WRs are elite at YAC. That's what it's all about. Keep James Jones and use him appropriately.
And this year, draft DD's replacement, whether he's done yet or not. Someone who can RETURN PUNTS. Or at least groom Swain for the punt returning job.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

longtimefan
51.25% (Neutral)
Registered

14 years ago

#43

Aaron Rodgers had a TERRIFIC game, and we would have lost without those turnovers. The passing game by itself was not enough to win.

"macbob" wrote:

How do you know that we dont score if there were no turnovers?

Ben doesnt toss that pick 6..But say they punt and we get ball at their 45, and we score a td on that drive?

Fact is we dont know so dont act like you know..

We won the game..That is all I effing care about

longtimefan
51.25% (Neutral)
Registered

14 years ago

#44

Starks 11 carries 52 yards

As I said all year long we dont stick to the run game enough..

nerdmann
100% (Exalted)
Premier Member

14 years ago

#45

Starks 11 carries 52 yards

As I said all year long we dont stick to the run game enough..

"longtimefan" wrote:

In fairness, the Steelers were if not the best, then among the best run defenses in the league. And their CBs were questionable.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

longtimefan
51.25% (Neutral)
Registered

14 years ago

#46

Starks 11 carries 52 yards

As I said all year long we dont stick to the run game enough..

"nerdmann" wrote:

In fairness, the Steelers were if not the best, then among the best run defenses in the league. And their CBs were questionable.

"longtimefan" wrote:

Yup 2.8 per carry

evad04
100% (Exalted)
Member

14 years ago

#47

"nerdmann" wrote:

The reason there were so many drops IMO is that there were so many low percentage passes down the field. Run a high percentage offense and it IS a blowout. Holmgren already proved you "don't need" a running game. He counted screens and dumpoffs to the RBs as running plays.
We can get plenty of big plays throwing short, high percentage passes. Our WRs are elite at YAC. That's what it's all about. Keep James Jones and use him appropriately.
And this year, draft Donald Driver's replacement, whether he's done yet or not. Someone who can RETURN PUNTS. Or at least groom Swain for the punt returning job.

"peteralan71" wrote:

Another facepalm moment from a nerdmann post. Did you watch the game? A few of the notable drops were in the 10-12 yard category. Jones dropped a 11-yard slant. You wouldn't call that a "low percentage" pass. Jordy dropped about a 12-yard in route. Again, not a low percentage pass. Nelson dropped another pass over the middle that was relatively short. And the clincher on virtually all of the drops? They were perfectly thrown.

There goes your theory.

William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."

nerdmann
100% (Exalted)
Premier Member

14 years ago

#48

"evad04" wrote:

The reason there were so many drops IMO is that there were so many low percentage passes down the field. Run a high percentage offense and it IS a blowout. Holmgren already proved you "don't need" a running game. He counted screens and dumpoffs to the RBs as running plays.
We can get plenty of big plays throwing short, high percentage passes. Our WRs are elite at YAC. That's what it's all about. Keep James Jones and use him appropriately.
And this year, draft Donald Driver's replacement, whether he's done yet or not. Someone who can RETURN PUNTS. Or at least groom Swain for the punt returning job.

"nerdmann" wrote:

"peteralan71" wrote:

12 yards downfield is not short yardage. Get your guys in the zone with some efficient, high percentage passing. I was actually astonished when Joe Buck and these columnists actually used the words "low percentage" on some of these drops.
Doesn't matter if it hits the guy in the hands. On a couple of the ones Jordi dropped there were guys getting their hands up and almost slapping the ball down, which can also serve to obstruct vision of the ball.
Seems like the main short yardage throws the Packers throw are those stupid WRs screens.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

wpr
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#49

Maybe it really is the 3 dropped TDs instead of the running game. Rodgers should have been 36 of 39 for over 400 yards and 6TDs but Nelson dropped 4, Jennings, Jones and Swain all dropped one. One was in the end zone when Nelson was behind the D. One was on the side line when Jones was behind the D. Another was in the same area with Nelson behind the D. Not one of them was covered well. The defenders may have broken up Swains catch. But the other ones were hit in the hands when they were open and flat out dropped the ball. The ones in tight windows were caught by Jennings.

You dismissed the argument out of hand and denied that those were easily catchable balls that went through the WRs hands. Without that, your argument falls apart. Which is why the preemptive dismissal.

Didn't Mendenhall only have 11 more yards on a 3 more attempts than Starks? 4.7 yards per carry isn't credible?

Maybe the LB say that Starks didn't have the ball and didn't need to bite on the Fake, he had an unobstructed view.

We would have won by 23 if we caught the passes is exactly as valid an argument as we would have lost without the turnovers.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:

It is not fair to say 6 TD's. Jennings caught the TD in the right corner of the end zone on the same drive that Nelson dropped one. The came back to Jordy the very next play and he took it to the 3.
Other times GB played field position battles with Pitt and even though they may not have scored on the drive of the dropped pass, they kept Pitt penned back in their own end of the field.

Packers_Finland
50.25% (Neutral)
Registered

14 years ago

#50

How the hell am I still reading nerdmann's bitchy posts? WE WON THE FREAKIN SUPER BOWL FOR CHRIST SAKES! But no, it isn't enough. You need to win the Super Bowl with high percentage passes.

This is a placeholder

longtimefan
51.25% (Neutral)
Registered

14 years ago

#51

"wpr" wrote:

HUH?

Jennings got a TD in middle of endzone, it was a 3 play drive, two to Jennings and run by Starks with 2:30 to go in 1st half after Bush's int

Jordys drop was with 2:10 to go on 3rd down in right corner , they kicked a FG.....

Your thinking of the wrong play

mi_keys
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

14 years ago

#52

Nerdman this is for you

[img_l]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001323173/DoubleFacePalm_xlarge.jpeg[/img_l]

Here is my sentence by sentence rebuttal

12 yards downfield is not short yardage.

-12 yards IS relatively short and an extremely "high percentage" throw as you like to call them.

Get your guys in the zone with some efficient, high percentage passing.

-Many of the drops were in the second half, after players had already made some big plays in some cases. How long does it take for them to "get into the zone?" What the hell are warmups for?

I was actually astonished when Joe Buck and these columnists actually used the words "low percentage" on some of these drops.

-I don't listen to announcers because they piss me off, so I have no idea what context Mr. Buck said "low percentage" in. From your statement I'm guessing it was that these were passes that are rarely dropped. If that's the case, then he was spot on. I honestly have no idea what you're astonished about.

Doesn't matter if it hits the guy in the hands.

-Mate, if you honestly believe this you seriously need help.

On a couple of the ones Jordi dropped there were guys getting their hands up and almost slapping the ball down, which can also serve to obstruct vision of the ball.

-I don't know which ones you are talking about here with Jordy. The deep ball on 3rd down on the first drive had no defensive back within 3 yards of him. There was a crossing route on a 2nd down right before he made a big play where he dropped the pass and again there was no one near him. There was a slant that he dropped but that did have a safety closing in on him, but that would have more to do with being afraid of getting hit, not having a hand distract him. There was the one in the end zone on the last drive that went off his finger tips and again the defender was behind him.

Also, NFL receivers deal with coverage all the time. It's their bloody job. If a receiver drops a ball because of hands being near slapping them down doesn't mean it's not a bad play by the receiver. Usually it is.

Seems like the main short yardage throws the Packers throw are those stupid WRs screens.

So 10-12 yards is too long and wide receiver screens are stupid. I guess we should run nothing but 5 yard slants all game.

Oh, and stop pissing and moaning about the play calling. It was pretty damn good. We won.

Born and bred a cheesehead

wpr
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#53

"longtimefan" wrote:

"wpr" wrote:

Sorry while I am getting two different drives mixed up Jennings DID catch the td after a Nelson dropped pass.

# Green Bay Packers at 14:50
# 1-10-GB 45 (14:50) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short left to 87-J.Nelson.
# 2-10-GB 45 (14:45) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 87-J.Nelson to GB 48 for 3 yards (43-T.Polamalu).
# 3-7-GB 48 (14:01) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 89-J.Jones ran ob at PIT 40 for 12 yards.
# 1-10-PIT 40 (13:21) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 32-B.Jackson.
# 2-10-PIT 40 (13:16) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass incomplete short middle to 87-J.Nelson.
# 3-10-PIT 40 (13:11) (Shotgun) 12-A.Rodgers pass short middle to 87-J.Nelson pushed ob at PIT 2 for 38 yards (43-T.Polamalu).
# 1-2-PIT 2 (12:40) 12-A.Rodgers sacked at PIT 8 for -6 yards (56-L.Woodley).
# 2-8-PIT 8 (12:03) 12-A.Rodgers pass short right to 85-G.Jennings for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN .

NFL.com wrote:

lords_of_thelema
50.25% (Neutral)
Registered

14 years ago

#54

If 12 yards was high percentage, a lot more teams would be running those plays all the time. BAM! First down, over and over again.

blank

mi_keys
100% (Exalted)
Senior Member

14 years ago

#55

If 12 yards was high percentage, a lot more teams would be running those plays all the time. BAM! First down, over and over again.

"lords_of_thelema" wrote:

Teams do have crossing routes just beyond the first down that are run in a very high number of passing plays. If the receiver is open it is a high percentage play, if not you go to the check down or the next read. Why is this so difficult to comprehend?

Born and bred a cheesehead

evad04
100% (Exalted)
Member

14 years ago

#56

If 12 yards was high percentage, a lot more teams would be running those plays all the time. BAM! First down, over and over again.

"mi_keys" wrote:

"lords_of_thelema" wrote:

This.

To make the claim that it doesn't matter if it hits the receivers hands is one of the more ridiculous things I've heard ... ever.

Also, the depth of a route should not be the only factor in deciding its likelihood of completion. When James Jones cuts on a 8-yard post and gets separation AND the ball is thrown perfectly in stride this would constitute a "high percentage" play. A drop is a drop, whether it takes place 2 yards or 72 yards downfield.

Finally, the deeper "low percentage" passes were crucial to the Packers' win. Hit the Steelers up the seems, where they are weak, and you'll get some completions.

William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."

Nonstopdrivel
100% (Exalted)
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#57

It's so fun listening to Greg Jennings' running analysis of the defensive situation.

Polamalu's shooting straight down to me. He's flying down so hard, he can't adjust! . . . There's no way he can cover a seam or a corner route. . . . Wide open. They can't cover it.

[After his touchdown catch] G'ohh, my God, I've been telling Mike, 'Corner routes, corner routes!' Nobody out there!

[After his third-down conversion] I've gotta come up outta that tackle, man. We need seven! Ohh, gotta come out of that. [...] I don't like this situation. I just don't, man. I love our defense to death! I don't like putting them in this situation every single game!

"Greg Jennings" wrote:

Speaking of which, who's the crazy-looking, longhaired guy in street clothes that Jennings says that last part to? He looks pissed; he practically brushes Jennings off.

Dexter_Sinister
100% (Exalted)
Registered

14 years ago

#58

Starks 11 carries 52 yards

As I said all year long we dont stick to the run game enough..

"longtimefan" wrote:

For that you have to blame the Steelers.

MM said the majority of the plays were run/pass option. Rodgers makes a pre snap read, calls out an audible to which option, or just changes it without telling anyone and either throws or hands off according to the D alignment.

The read tells him which will be the most exploitable. If the Pitsburgh lines up weak against the pass, Rodgers throws it.

That is why we threw so much. MM said he wanted to run more because Starks was rolling, but you have to go with the reads.

When he said he put the game on Rodgers, he meant the decisions, not that we would pass a lot.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

nerdmann
100% (Exalted)
Premier Member

14 years ago

#59

If 12 yards was high percentage, a lot more teams would be running those plays all the time. BAM! First down, over and over again.

"mi_keys" wrote:

"lords_of_thelema" wrote:

Yeah, they run them all the time. And it's not exactly a sure thing.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

nerdmann
100% (Exalted)
Premier Member

14 years ago

#60

If 12 yards was high percentage, a lot more teams would be running those plays all the time. BAM! First down, over and over again.

"evad04" wrote:

"mi_keys" wrote:

"lords_of_thelema" wrote:

Catching a good pass from 5 feet away is not that same as catching a good pass from 40 yards away, especially at full speed with guys diving between you and the ball.
Not saying there is an excuse for dropping the ball. What I'm saying is, give him high percentage plays, and he will have fewer drops.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

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