Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
The TD passes that were dropped, the WR was behind the D and going away. The passes hit them in the hands. They were not tipped passes, circus catches, one handed grabs or diving catches. They were in stride and hit them in the hands. The WRs were between the ball and the DB. Not the other way around.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago

It's so fun listening to Greg Jennings' running analysis of the defensive situation.

Polamalu's shooting straight down to me. He's flying down so hard, he can't adjust! . . . There's no way he can cover a seam or a corner route. . . . Wide open. They can't cover it.

[After his touchdown catch] G'ohh, my God, I've been telling Mike, 'Corner routes, corner routes!' Nobody out there!

[After his third-down conversion] I've gotta come up outta that tackle, man. We need seven! Ohh, gotta come out of that. [...] I don't like this situation. I just don't, man. I love our defense to death! I don't like putting them in this situation every single game!

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Speaking of which, who's the crazy-looking, longhaired guy in street clothes that Jennings says that last part to? He looks pissed; he practically brushes Jennings off.

"Greg Jennings" wrote:



If you are talking about the dark haired guy with the beard, that was Chillar. He didn't look angry, he look nauseous. I was too.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
nerdmann
14 years ago

The TD passes that were dropped, the WR was behind the D and going away. The passes hit them in the hands. They were not tipped passes, circus catches, one handed grabs or diving catches. They were in stride and hit them in the hands. The WRs were between the ball and the DB. Not the other way around.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:





I wouldn't say that. One to Jordi was both defensed and a diving play. Another to Jordi was over the middle and through traffic. The huge drop by Jones was pretty clean, but still, not as easy as it would be from 4 yards downfield.
I'm not bitching about the fact that we won the Superbowl. I think that's F'n awesome. I'm just saying I would keep Jones, but use him in a way to maximize his success.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
mi_keys
14 years ago
Nerdman,

Nothing in the NFL is a sure thing, not even the most conservative of plays.

You're right. Catching a pass from 5 yards away is not the same as catching a pass from 40 yards away. If anything it's easier to catch a deep post route than a 5 yard slant because the slant is coming at high velocity from so close you have very little time to react and a button hook is designed to have the ball be there right as you turn, again with almost no time to react. If you're farther away you can watch the ball in the entire way.

Also, Jordy is spelled with a "y." You've made that mistake in this thread at least twice now.

The drops:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011020600/2010/POST22/steelers@packers#tab:watch 

Jordy's first at 23 seconds: no defender within 3 yards of him and no hands up in the way. He just lets it fly right through his hands.

Jone's drop at 4:17: defender gets no where near the ball and it's about an 8 yard route. How would being 4 yards closer make it easier? It can't get any easier. Being that far out to the side means 4 yards closer to the line of scrimmage is not going to be a significant decrease in the distance the ball has to travel. Most of that flight is lateral on the field, not down field, anyway.

Swain's drop at 5:26: it's a 15 yard stop route that is designed to sit in a hole in the zone. It gets to Swain cleanly with an unobstructed view and only after it's in his hands and he's started to turn does a defender get a hand to the ball.

Another from Jordy at 6:18: it's a 12 yard crossing route, both underneath routes are covered tightly but Jordy's got two steps on his man. The ball gets to him cleanly, he isn't touched, and just drops it. Not really a whole lot of traffic and honestly it's a pass a good high school receiver should catch. It's routine for NFL receivers and Jordy showed that the very next play when he got open on the same route and took the ball to the 3.


That's 4 drops that have no excuse as far as defenders deflecting the ball or getting between the receiver and the ball. On only the Swain drop did a defender even get there to make a play, though it is one that has to be caught. The Jordy Nelson one you referenced in your last post was on a 2nd and 7 in the 2nd quarter. I couldn't find video of it. It was a 7 yard slant. He dropped it probably because he was hearing footsteps. Anyway, that drop came on a play that is in the range you'd expect those "high percentage" plays to come from. There are no guarantees in the NFL though. It was probably the best covered of any of the drops.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
My dad always told me that receivers are taught to make a "keyhole" with their hands to help ensure they securely catch the ball and maintain possession. On all of Nelson's notable catches, including his touchdown reception, you can see him make just such a keyhole. In both of Jennings' TD receptions as well as his pivotal third-down conversion, he also makes that keyhole. However, on his huge drop, Jones conspicuously does not keyhole his hands -- he lays his palms out flat, presenting a perfect surface for ricochet. I've been reviewing replays of other notable drops from the season and it seems to be a recurring pattern.

It was also observed throughout the season that Packers receivers frequently took their eyes off the ball or tried to turn upfield before securing possession.

I understand that drops are inevitable and no passing game is perfect, but I'm starting to wonder if this really does boil down to a problem with fundamentals after all.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
If the ball is lower, you want your pinkies nearly touching.
If the ball is higher, you want to nearly make a triangle with your thumbs and index fingers.


I never heard of a keyhole when being taught how to catch.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Well, I don't know what the exact metaphor is. My dad was a defensive lineman, not a receiver.

The point is they're supposed to cup their hands with their fingertips touching. Jones lays his hands out flat, and they're not even touching. Even if the ball makes contacts with one of his hands, he doesn't have time to close them, much less bring them together around the ball, before it's bounced away.

By the way, on his huge interception, Nick Collins also put his hands together in a perfect keyhole, for lack of a better word.
UserPostedImage
mi_keys
14 years ago
I'm pretty sure the two of you are talking about the same concept with the keyhole or triangle. You touch your index and thumb together. Raji's pick six against the Bears was a pretty good example of how to catch a ball with this form.
Born and bred a cheesehead
zombieslayer
14 years ago

Nerdman,

Nothing in the NFL is a sure thing, not even the most conservative of plays.

You're right. Catching a pass from 5 yards away is not the same as catching a pass from 40 yards away. If anything it's easier to catch a deep post route than a 5 yard slant because the slant is coming at high velocity from so close you have very little time to react and a button hook is designed to have the ball be there right as you turn, again with almost no time to react. If you're farther away you can watch the ball in the entire way.

Also, Jordy is spelled with a "y." You've made that mistake in this thread at least twice now.

The drops:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011020600/2010/POST22/steelers@packers#tab:watch 

Jordy's first at 23 seconds: no defender within 3 yards of him and no hands up in the way. He just lets it fly right through his hands.

Jone's drop at 4:17: defender gets no where near the ball and it's about an 8 yard route. How would being 4 yards closer make it easier? It can't get any easier. Being that far out to the side means 4 yards closer to the line of scrimmage is not going to be a significant decrease in the distance the ball has to travel. Most of that flight is lateral on the field, not down field, anyway.

Swain's drop at 5:26: it's a 15 yard stop route that is designed to sit in a hole in the zone. It gets to Swain cleanly with an unobstructed view and only after it's in his hands and he's started to turn does a defender get a hand to the ball.

Another from Jordy at 6:18: it's a 12 yard crossing route, both underneath routes are covered tightly but Jordy's got two steps on his man. The ball gets to him cleanly, he isn't touched, and just drops it. Not really a whole lot of traffic and honestly it's a pass a good high school receiver should catch. It's routine for NFL receivers and Jordy showed that the very next play when he got open on the same route and took the ball to the 3.


That's 4 drops that have no excuse as far as defenders deflecting the ball or getting between the receiver and the ball. On only the Swain drop did a defender even get there to make a play, though it is one that has to be caught. The Jordy Nelson one you referenced in your last post was on a 2nd and 7 in the 2nd quarter. I couldn't find video of it. It was a 7 yard slant. He dropped it probably because he was hearing footsteps. Anyway, that drop came on a play that is in the range you'd expect those "high percentage" plays to come from. There are no guarantees in the NFL though. It was probably the best covered of any of the drops.

"mi_keys" wrote:



Thanks for that link. A few comments:
1) painful to watch as we got to see all those injuries. Dammit. Seeing Woodson in pain like that was disturbing. Also Driver going out and not being able to finish the game. A big shame.

2) Loved seeing MM get excited after a TD. Show your emotions occasionally MM. :)

3) The drops - they showed every single one. Had the drops been caught, this game would have been a blowout. For those who are knocking me in this thread, please watch the video. Thanks.

By the way, good explanation of the drops, Keys. No excuses for those drops. Maybe losing our WR Coach is a good thing. I guess we'll see in '11 (or '12 if there is no season this year).
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
nerdmann
14 years ago

Nerdman,

Nothing in the NFL is a sure thing, not even the most conservative of plays.

You're right. Catching a pass from 5 yards away is not the same as catching a pass from 40 yards away. If anything it's easier to catch a deep post route than a 5 yard slant because the slant is coming at high velocity from so close you have very little time to react and a button hook is designed to have the ball be there right as you turn, again with almost no time to react. If you're farther away you can watch the ball in the entire way.

Also, Jordy is spelled with a "y." You've made that mistake in this thread at least twice now.

The drops:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011020600/2010/POST22/steelers@packers#tab:watch 

Jordy's first at 23 seconds: no defender within 3 yards of him and no hands up in the way. He just lets it fly right through his hands.

Jone's drop at 4:17: defender gets no where near the ball and it's about an 8 yard route. How would being 4 yards closer make it easier? It can't get any easier. Being that far out to the side means 4 yards closer to the line of scrimmage is not going to be a significant decrease in the distance the ball has to travel. Most of that flight is lateral on the field, not down field, anyway.

Swain's drop at 5:26: it's a 15 yard stop route that is designed to sit in a hole in the zone. It gets to Swain cleanly with an unobstructed view and only after it's in his hands and he's started to turn does a defender get a hand to the ball.

Another from Jordy at 6:18: it's a 12 yard crossing route, both underneath routes are covered tightly but Jordy's got two steps on his man. The ball gets to him cleanly, he isn't touched, and just drops it. Not really a whole lot of traffic and honestly it's a pass a good high school receiver should catch. It's routine for NFL receivers and Jordy showed that the very next play when he got open on the same route and took the ball to the 3.


That's 4 drops that have no excuse as far as defenders deflecting the ball or getting between the receiver and the ball. On only the Swain drop did a defender even get there to make a play, though it is one that has to be caught. The Jordy Nelson one you referenced in your last post was on a 2nd and 7 in the 2nd quarter. I couldn't find video of it. It was a 7 yard slant. He dropped it probably because he was hearing footsteps. Anyway, that drop came on a play that is in the range you'd expect those "high percentage" plays to come from. There are no guarantees in the NFL though. It was probably the best covered of any of the drops.

"mi_keys" wrote:




First one: That's the one where he's diving. Iirc, just made a move to beat those two defenders, and kind of had to spin around and dive. My recollection is he couldn't adjust fast enough.
Next one: This is one where Jones is just breaking away. I wouldn't say this is a low percentage play, it's mid-range. But I agree, being that Jones is almost always along the sidelines, the ball has to travel that much farther. You are now arguing my point.
Swain's drop: He drop this due to the play of the defender. Still, this is a low percentage play. Too far down the field.
JordY at 6:18: This is the one I was talking about, where it looked like the ILB swatted at it, obstructing his view. Look at the game film, they don't show it as well here on the highlight vid. You'll see on the next play they go right back to JordY and there is a clean passing late. The pass is completed.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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