RedSoxExcel
14 years ago

Tom Brady won four Super Bowls on a team that allowed Matt Cassell to go 11-5. I believe that if we were to swap Tom Brady for Aaron Rodgers right now, the offensive production of the Packers would decline while that of the Patriots would increase.

Tom Brady is certainly an excellent quarterback. I like to watch him play. But he's not stellar in my opinion, and I will not allow my judgment of his individual performance to be skewed by the glitter on his hand.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



So are you saying if you had one year, one shot, you'd take Rodgers over Brady?
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Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Without a moment's hesitation.
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DakotaT
14 years ago


Do you mean for your franchise QB for the next 15 years? Yeah he's younger than Brady and Manning. But if I want someone that is going to win me a SB now, if I could replace Rodgers with Tom f'n Brady this year, I would in a heartbeat. Not even think about it. One guy's won 3 SB's, been to 4, had the best season ever for a QB, etc.

If your saying for franchise QB, your starting a QB, fine but if what people are saying is that they would rather have Rodgers than Brady for one run to the SB, I don't know what to say.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



I would say you're heavily influenced by the east coast media. The Patriots were no dynasty. They eeked by for their titles, and very easily could have lost any of those games. Some may say they were helped along the way by refs swallowing their flags when the Patriots were on defense, the tuck rule, you know things homers never want to hear. Belicheck won those Super Bowls, Brady drove the car. Besides the Giants showed how infallable Tommy is.
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RedSoxExcel
14 years ago


Do you mean for your franchise QB for the next 15 years? Yeah he's younger than Brady and Manning. But if I want someone that is going to win me a SB now, if I could replace Rodgers with Tom f'n Brady this year, I would in a heartbeat. Not even think about it. One guy's won 3 SB's, been to 4, had the best season ever for a QB, etc.

If your saying for franchise QB, your starting a QB, fine but if what people are saying is that they would rather have Rodgers than Brady for one run to the SB, I don't know what to say.

"DakotaT" wrote:



I would say you're heavily influenced by the east coast media. The Patriots were no dynasty. They eeked by for their titles, and very easily could have lost any of those games. Some may say they were helped along the way by refs swallowing their flags when the Patriots were on defense, the tuck rule, you know things homers never want to hear. Belicheck won those Super Bowls, Brady drove the car. Besides the Giants showed how infallable Tommy is.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



What? If everyone is so obsessed with statistics. In 2007, Brady had 4,800 yards, 50 touchdowns, 8 ints, 115+ QB rating. If it wasn't for a lucky catch with seconds left, they'd be 19-0 (after Brady led them to a game winning TD). I hate the Pats but he's clutch, put the ball in his hands in the 4th and he'll get you there.

Regardless of how much help you get from the refs or whatever people want to say, you don't win 3 SBs and almost 4 (with an 18-0 record) for nothing. And he won those SBs with nobodies at WR and RB. Give him and Moss and look what happens. I don't even like him but I don't get why people try to compare him to a Terry Bradshaw or even Aikman that sat around for the ride. You don't throw 50 touchdowns in a season if your just there for the ride.
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DakotaT
14 years ago



What? If everyone is so obsessed with statistics. In 2007, Brady had 4,800 yards, 50 touchdowns, 8 ints, 115+ QB rating. If it wasn't for a lucky catch with seconds left, they'd be 19-0 (after Brady led them to a game winning TD). I hate the Pats but he's clutch, put the ball in his hands in the 4th and he'll get you there.

Regardless of how much help you get from the refs or whatever people want to say, you don't win 3 SBs and almost 4 (with an 18-0 record) for nothing. And he won those SBs with nobodies at WR and RB. Give him and Moss and look what happens.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



The last dynasty was the Cowboys and the better one was the 9ers. I already told why yours was garbage. What's sad is winning by only 3 when you know all the other teams plays. That defense was old and slow but yet they could shut people down, why? Because they got away with murder - holding every play. I will give you Brady's one good statistical year though, of course your division was Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets who were all pathetic at the time.
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rodgehodge
14 years ago
if you're talking '07 Brady vs. '10 Rodgers, then you have a legitimate point. But '10 Brady vs. '10 Rodgers? I'll take Rodgers hands down.
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dhazer
14 years ago
I think the one that is certain with this thread is that everyone has different ideas on how to judge a qb.

As for some questions on here like who would you take for one year, I would probably take P Manning. Now for long term I think it would be a toss up between Rodgers and Flacco. Before you laugh lets see what kind of stats Flacco puts up in his 4th and 5th years.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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mi_keys
14 years ago

mi_keys, sorry I meant Matt Schuab, I was living in 2006.

The QB rating thing is so stupid. Check this:

1. Aaron Rodgers (26) 97.2 2005-2009 gnb
2. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM
3. Philip Rivers (28) 95.8 2004-2009 sdg
4. Tony Romo (29) 95.6 2004-2009 dal
5. Peyton Manning (33) 95.2 1998-2009 clt
6. Kurt Warner (38) 93.7 1998-2009 3TM
7. Tom Brady (32) 93.3 2000-2009 nwe

Is that mean that Philip Rivers is bound to be one of the all time greats because he's done it for even longer than Rodgers. Romo?

Like the I said, right now, Rodgers is the same as Romo and Rivers, good numbers, no career defining wins, no deep playoff runs (exception of Rivers).

Enough with the whole Rodgers has had the best statistics ever in the first two years. You want to see something even more disturbing:

10. Ben Roethlisberger (27) 91.7 2004-2009 pit
11. Matt Schaub (28) 91.3 2004-2009 2TM
12. Chad Pennington (33) 90.1 2000-2009 2TM
13. Carson Palmer (30) 87.9 2004-2009 cin
14. Daunte Culpepper (32) 87.8 1999-2009 4TM
15. Jeff Garcia (39) 87.5 1999-2009 5TM

Those are ALL TIME numbers. Like I said too early to start talking about all time greats.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



I figured you meant someone else, saying David Carr is elite would be psychotic.

I too don't like qb ratings and I'm not banking my opinion of Rodgers on that statistic. I'm banking it on his total production (passing and rushing, which to Rodgers detriment the qb rating does not account for), the fact he looks to have further improved on things such as the speed of his release, and how he's handled himself in pressure situations.

And let's compare his last year to Rivers' and Romo's best years (I'm including two years for each of Rivers and Romo because it's debatable which was their best):

Rodgers (2009):
Total Yards - 4,750
Total TDs - 35
Total Turnovers - 11

Rivers (2009):
Total Yards - 4,304
Total TDs - 29
Total Turnovers - 12

Rivers (2008):
Total Yards - 4,093
Total TDs - 34
Total Turnovers - 15

Romo (2009):
Total Yards - 4,588
Total TDs - 27
Total Turnovers - 13

Romo (2007):
Total Yards - 4,340
Total TDs - 38
Total Turnovers - 21

So only once has Romo or Rivers produced more touchdowns than Rodgers did last year, and in that year Romo turned the ball over 10 more times and had 400 fewer yards. Neither has produced as many yards or protected the ball as well either.

As for the "no career defining wins" you could liken that to a comeback win because that's essentially what everyone remembers. Well that debate was fought over endlessly last offseason and frankly he should have one. Rodgers has on occasion taken the team on his back and clawed them back into contention. Unfortunately, the defense in those games continued to suck and he fell just short (I'm thinking Carolina '08, Pittsburgh '09, and Arizona '09 playoffs specifically). Yes he threw a pick at the end of the Carolina game and yes he missed Jennings by an inch to win but in major stretches of those games he showed he can singlehandedly dominate teams in clutch situations. That's something I haven't seen from Romo and have seen at times from Rivers.

For the record, I think Rivers and Romo will go down in history as great quarterbacks too. I think Rivers will end up a tranche below Rodgers and Romo a little behind Rivers.
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RedSoxExcel
14 years ago



What? If everyone is so obsessed with statistics. In 2007, Brady had 4,800 yards, 50 touchdowns, 8 ints, 115+ QB rating. If it wasn't for a lucky catch with seconds left, they'd be 19-0 (after Brady led them to a game winning TD). I hate the Pats but he's clutch, put the ball in his hands in the 4th and he'll get you there.

Regardless of how much help you get from the refs or whatever people want to say, you don't win 3 SBs and almost 4 (with an 18-0 record) for nothing. And he won those SBs with nobodies at WR and RB. Give him and Moss and look what happens.

"DakotaT" wrote:



The last dynasty was the Cowboys and the better one was the 9ers. I already told why yours was garbage. What's sad is winning by only 3 when you know all the other teams plays. That defense was old and slow but yet they could shut people down, why? Because they got away with murder - holding every play. I will give you Brady's one good statistical year though, of course your division was Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets who were all pathetic at the time.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



That does not compute. We're in a division with the Bears and LIONS, so what. In 2007, they played the Cowboys, the Steelers, the Colts, the Chargers (twice), etc. and beat them all. If your theory is that they won 3 SBs because they knew all the plays (a jump there but whatever), then how do you explain going 18-1 with the same "old and slow" defense.

Vrabel, Seau, Bruschi, Rodney Harrison were all still on that 2007 team I'm pretty sure. So how could that same team that always cheated and was forced to stop cheating go 18-1 if one of the big reasons they eeked out victories was they cheated during their 3 SBs.

Either way I don't care about the Pats, but Brady has nothing to do with any of that. At the end of the day, I think its very hard to argue that Brady is not VERY VERY good.
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RedSoxExcel
14 years ago
mi_keys, I think we are on the same page. I agree with what your saying. But the fact they are so close in those stats and the way you discuss their careers is why I am saying that right now, Rodgers is like Rivers/Romo (probably better). But he's still not in that elite class.

It goes:

Manning/Brady
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Brees
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Rivers/Rodgers/Romo/Big Ben, etc.
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