isocleas2
14 years ago
I'm with Rock on this one. A million bucks over 2 years with no cap is worth it for a dynamic return man. Even if he only provides a marginal upgrade over Tramon and Jordy, its worth it not having to worry about the possible injury.
Greg C.
14 years ago
The salary cap is not a problem, but this is not pretend money we are talking about. A million bucks is a million bucks, and when you have a business you don't spend that kind of money unless you are going to get a lot in return. If they thought this punt returner was not going to be much of an upgrade over the guys we have, then there was no reason to sign him.

Nobody's ever answered the question that someone asked in another thread about how often punt returners get injured. I think the good ones are good at protecting themselves. It's not like a running back where you have to run into defenders. Any time a player is on the field there is a chance of injury. It could happen on a punt return. But it could also happen on any play from scrimmage. You put your best players on the field and try to win the game.
blank
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

A couple like in 8. You want to tell me that thats enough to throw that amount of money at the guy? Thats matt cassel like crazy. I think he showed his amazing tlanet the year after that, gaining a whopping 3.8 ypc. And hes not the elite guy he looked like in 2007 and which we paid for bigtime. It was an idiotic time to just give the guy a huge contract.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



I see the title of this thread, but I have no clue where it's going. With that said, I'm gonna bite on the Grant contract. Show some details as to why it was outrageous please. I'm a bit ignorant on the facts with it. From what I remember, it was incentive laden and he's being paid his amount based on certain targets. One of which was 1,250 which he just barely missed in '09 that cost him I believe $500k

Grant started in 7 games and nearly got 1,000 yards. (he came in another game very early in the first quarter of what could easily be considered an 8th start.)
UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
The problem is a small group of people can't seem to understand that any ball carrier needs blockers. One player can't beat all 11 of the defenders on their own like you seem to expect them to.

Grant is the second leading rusher in the last 2.5 years that he has been a starter. If you don't get that, nothing I can type will get you to realize it. That is why that isn't worth a reply. You won't get it any way. Because you don't want to.

He did that with the worst O-line in the NFL for half a year. To me that means if we had a moderately decent line, he would have had quite a few more yards. Maybe up to a full yard per carry more on his average last year. The second half of the year he had 200 more yards than the first half. If he gets that better blocking and gets that extra 200 yards, he averages over 5 yards per last year. Is that over rated?

The kick return game is the exact same thing. We had plenty of decent kick returns. The penalties that called them back were the problem. Not the guy carrying the ball.

It should be a simple concept. If you want a return for a TD, BLOCK SOMEONE AND DON'T GET A PENALTY.

Quit looking and the little sparkly things and you might notice there is a game going on. From all indications, a pretty good one too.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Stevetarded
14 years ago

NOt evne worth a reply? So the problem is that you guys just don't see the position as something that important. A better KR/PR adds nearly as much yards over an avarage KR/PR as Grant does over some random, more average RB.

A KR/PR will make more impact than a rotational LB or a S who's always injnured. I don't know why its so blasphemous to make a comparison. I'm not saying that the guy makes as much money as our other guys do but this amount of money is nothing.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Smith averaged about 3.5 more yards per return than Jordy did last year so the question is 3.5ypr worth over a million dollars? (and that's if he is even back from concussions/knee injury to where he was at last season)
blank
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

The problem is a small group of people can't seem to understand that any ball carrier needs blockers. One player can't beat all 11 of the defenders on their own like you seem to expect them to.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:


The key is paying a fumble prone fella nearly a million dollars to return kicks/punts, then the ballcarrier will dodge 10 plus the punter/kicker! :P



heh 😛 @ Rock ( sorry bud had to give you a lil jab )
UserPostedImage
Packers_Finland
14 years ago

You put your best players on the field and try to win the game.

"Greg C." wrote:



Yeah, and Clifton Smith would be a better returner than Jordy, Tramon or Jennings.

The injury risk on punt and kick returns is much bigger than on snaps from scrimmage.

And seriously, I still don't get how all of you guys are worried about the salary? I mean what the hell? Is it seriously a deal-breaking issue if you have to lose 700k of net money (you lose 325k at the least when cutting a player)? It's not out of your pocket, it's out of this team's pocket, and with the kind of money this team has to use, a 700k bump to the team's whole salary is fucking irrelevant. The salary is NOT an issue.
This is a placeholder
yooperfan
14 years ago
And now back to Charlie Peprah!
Rockmolder
14 years ago
Re-reading my own posts, I think it's pretty obvious that I might not've been totally sober. I'll re-do my point.

The problem is a small group of people can't seem to understand that any ball carrier needs blockers. One player can't beat all 11 of the defenders on their own like you seem to expect them to.

Grant is the second leading rusher in the last 2.5 years that he has been a starter. If you don't get that, nothing I can type will get you to realize it. That is why that isn't worth a reply. You won't get it any way. Because you don't want to.

He did that with the worst O-line in the NFL for half a year. To me that means if we had a moderately decent line, he would have had quite a few more yards. Maybe up to a full yard per carry more on his average last year. The second half of the year he had 200 more yards than the first half. If he gets that better blocking and gets that extra 200 yards, he averages over 5 yards per last year. Is that over rated?

The kick return game is the exact same thing. We had plenty of decent kick returns. The penalties that called them back were the problem. Not the guy carrying the ball.

It should be a simple concept. If you want a return for a TD, BLOCK SOMEONE AND DON'T GET A PENALTY.

Quit looking and the little sparkly things and you might notice there is a game going on. From all indications, a pretty good one too.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



I'm not ignoring blocking at all. Of course you need some blocking if you're going anywhere, but dear lord, if you watched any game last year, you saw Jordy running up to the 20 and into the back of his own men every single time.

If you saw the rotation door at PR, you must've agreed with me that it wasn't pretty most of the time. Tramon is the only one who can actually make something happen, someone who can dance around a little, but he's a starter right now at a horribly shallow position. The $1.65 would be worth it for the improvement on KRs and as an insurance policy for Tramon, alone.

And btw, on KRs and PRs, there's always some guys going to come free. That's what makes Hester and Cribbs so good. They make 3-4 guys miss on one single play if they go for the TD and then outrun them. Nelson tends to run into those people. Blocking on returns isn't as straigth forward as on normal runs.

Also, if you break a big one and it gets called back on a penalty, that usually means that that penalty might've had something to do with it. Especially if he runs into the pile every single time a flag isn't thrown.

And then for Grant. He was very, very good in 2007. So good that you couldn't let him play for the little amount of money he would get. I like that we gave him an incentive filled contract. Thing is, though, he got a huge contract on less than 200 carries. That's a pretty small sample, especially if everyone was focusing on the pass after our running game had been horrible for quite a while.

That he's the 2nd leading rusher does indeed not say that much to me. Mainly because it's a cumulative stat. This has just as much to do with getting nearly 800 carries over 2.5 years as it does with his skill. Or do you want to tell me that Grant's a better rusher than DeAngelo Williams, MJD, Ray Rice etc?

You can see a whole lot if you watch the "sparkly things". You can see that Grant has little wiggle, isn't quite evasive and doesn't exactly plow through people, either. The thing he has going for him is his speed in combination with his size. He doesn't get injured, doesn't put the ball on the turf, but he's nothing flashy. His fate is tied completely to our O-line. You could see that much in his stats last season. And there are about 5 guys in every draft who look good behind a good O-line.

I'm not saying that Grant is a bad player, but he just hasn't shown a whole lot that makes me think he's a great back or anything.

He's a Dorsey Levens who can stay healthy.
British
14 years ago
On the return issue, Packer fans should be the one group who can fully appreciate the benefit of a major return threat. We have the only special teams player to be named Superbowl MVP. $1m over two years doesn't seem much in the NFL today. A dynamic returner has genuine potential to swing a game in his team's favour - which is exactly what you need especially in the playoffs. I suspect we'll get to the playoffs even with indifferent return play, but once we come up against the best teams in the post season we need to squeeze every last % out of out team and shoddy special teams could cost us.

As for Peprah, I'm pleased he's doing well. But I fully expect him to drop to #4 once Bigby gets back after game 6. When that happens, assuming there are no season ending injuries, I guess Derrick Martin is most in danger of being cut to make room.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Martha Careful (43m) : it's funny how guys who are so desperate to play for championships, at least so they say, just take the money.
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Semantics ;)
Zero2Cool (2h) : They didn't return. They didn't even leave! ;-)
Mucky Tundra (2h) : Crosby and Garrett return to their respective teams; truckloads of $$$ solved any problems they had
dhazer (5h) : Russell Wilson will be back in Seattle as a bridge
Zero2Cool (6h) : Bills are releasing pass rusher Von Miller, per sources.
Zero2Cool (6h) : From trade to truce and beyond: the Browns and Myles Garrett reached agreement today on a record contract extension that averages $40m
TheKanataThrilla (8-Mar) : I could actually see Seattle inquiring about Willis.
TheKanataThrilla (8-Mar) : If we took a flyer on a QB, I like Kyle McCord out of Syaracuse. Keep Willis definitely, but don't turn down a good trade.
Mucky Tundra (8-Mar) : RB Kareem Hunt as well
Zero2Cool (8-Mar) : Tyreek Hill also arrested before or during Chiefs time for assault.
Martha Careful (8-Mar) : Kansas City Chiefs wide receiver Xavier Worthy was arrested for assault. They are now even more likely to supplement the WR position
Mucky Tundra (8-Mar) : So weak I had to say it twice!
Mucky Tundra (8-Mar) : But it feels like a weak QB draft class
Mucky Tundra (8-Mar) : But it feels like a weak QB draft class
Mucky Tundra (8-Mar) : I suppose that puts Seattle in play for a QB in the 1st round this year
Mucky Tundra (8-Mar) : Gotta say, didn't see Geno getting traded from the Seahawks
Zero2Cool (8-Mar) : Breer: Seahawks offered the Raiders Geno Smith and DK Metcalf for EDGE Maxx Crosby; Raiders "quickly" declined.
Zero2Cool (8-Mar) : It has 2019 Packers schedule.. yeah, I be slowly coding haha
Zero2Cool (8-Mar) : Finally got the 'new' PackersHome online...
Zero2Cool (8-Mar) : Nice work Seahawks!
dhazer (8-Mar) : wow Geno Smith to the Raiders for a 3rd rounder
Zero2Cool (6-Mar) : Good deal too
Martha Careful (6-Mar) : Maxx Crosby resigned by Raiders
Zero2Cool (6-Mar) : Chargers release Joey Bosa
Zero2Cool (4-Mar) : Appears Jets released Adams. It'll be official in few hours.
Zero2Cool (3-Mar) : We have re-signed LB Isaiah McDuffie
Zero2Cool (2-Mar) : Jets taking calls for Davante Adams. That $38m cap number hurting lol
Zero2Cool (2-Mar) : Guess it's not official until the 12th
Zero2Cool (2-Mar) : Deebo went for a 5th to Commanders?
Martha Careful (1-Mar) : Just like my late husband!!
Zero2Cool (1-Mar) : Once fired up, it should be good
Zero2Cool (1-Mar) : Sometimes, the first page load will be slow. it's firing up the site.
Martha Careful (1-Mar) : The site is operating much faster...tyvm
Mucky Tundra (28-Feb) : It's the offseason and the draft is still nearly 2 months away, what can ya do?🤷‍♂️
Zero2Cool (27-Feb) : NFL teams were notified today that the 2025 salary cap has been set at $279,200,000 per club.
Zero2Cool (27-Feb) : sssllllooooow
Martha Careful (27-Feb) : is it just me, or has the website been slow the last couple of days?
buckeyepackfan (26-Feb) : Damnit 2026 2nd rnd pick!
buckeyepackfan (26-Feb) : Packers get Myles Garret and Browns 2926 2nd rnd pick.
buckeyepackfan (26-Feb) : Browns get Jaire, + Packers #1 2025 pick and 2026 3rd rnd pick.
beast (26-Feb) : Rams trying to trade Stafford and Kupp, then signing Rodgers and Adams? Just speculation, but interesting
Zero2Cool (26-Feb) : Packers shopping Jaire Alexander per Ian Rapoport
Zero2Cool (25-Feb) : Gutekunst and Jaire Alexander’s agent, John Thornton, are meeting this week in Indianapolis to determine the future of the Packers’ 28-year-
Zero2Cool (25-Feb) : Gutekunst says Mark Murphy told him he can trade their first-round pick despite the draft being in Green Bay.
Zero2Cool (24-Feb) : Packers. 🤦
Zero2Cool (24-Feb) : One team.
Zero2Cool (24-Feb) : One team petition NFL to ban Brotherly Shove.
beast (23-Feb) : Seems like he was just pissed because he was no longer the starter
beast (23-Feb) : Campbell is right, he's rich and he doesn't have to explain sh!t... but that attitude gives teams reasons to never sign him again.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
42m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

44m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

6-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

4-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

4-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

4-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

3-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

3-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

1-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

1-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

1-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

28-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

28-Feb / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

27-Feb / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.