IronMan
16 years ago

jesus h you guys. unbelievable. you all claim to not be "fair weather fans" and while that may be true about the team in general, the very minute we lose a goddamn game you all lube up your index fingers and start pointing them up the anuses of the coaching staff and GM's.

unbelievable.

"warhawk" wrote:


Does firing the entire defensive staff after one losing season make McCarthy a "fair weather" head coach?

"IronMan" wrote:



I would say it makes him a smart coach.

"TwinkieGorilla" wrote:


I agree. I just find it funny that when fans last year were calling for Sanders and Stock to be fired, they were "fair weather fans", but when McCarthy fired them, (yeah I know Stock "retired"), the same people who were defending them, agreed they needed to go.

I remember being called fair weather when I wanted Ahmad Carroll gone. Then, as soon as he was cut, the same people that were defending him (even after his last game) were saying, "I'm glad he's gone." LOL
ILikeThePackers39
16 years ago

People seem to forget that in the first couple of years of the Holmgren and Wolf era we multiple times didn't improve our record and seemed unable to get over the hump.. albeit the seasons never ended below .500.. but it wasn't like it all came together in a single season..

Building a long term competitive team takes time..

"zombieslayer" wrote:



The thing is, who cares?

We never had a losing season. His record speaks for itself:
1992 - 9-7
1993 - 10-8
1994 - 10-8
1995 - 13-6
1996 - 16-3
1997 - 15-4
1998 - 11-6

No losing seasons, one SB ring. 75 wins and 37 losses in that time period for an amazing .670 %.

The thing is, it did come together all in one season. We went from being losers to winners in only one season. 1991, the year before Mike Holmgren, we were 4-12 and only better than the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFC Central. A year later, we're 9-7 and barely miss the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs, but you can tell we're improving even if the record was the same. A year after that, we're taken seriously as SB contentders. A year after that, we win the dang thing.

"pack93z" wrote:




I care. I care, because every time you upset the apple cart you have to take the time to put the damn thing back together again.

People hate the Patriots, but that is one stable system that knows what it's doing, and that's reflected in their overall consistency season-to-season.

Lots of people hate the Steelers, but they appear to know what they're doing, and they always stay the course.

The best, most consistent teams tend to be the ones that let their system mature and then stay the course - if we chuck every regime out based on wins and losses without even looking at the possible causes for those losses (my old nemesis "Injuries ain't no excuse!") then sooner or later we become the Arizona Cardinals or the other teams that reinvent themselves year after year looking for a quick fix.

I don't like assessing a season based on absolutes and narrow criteria. There's no way I'd ever do my job that way, and I would hope that's not the Packer way.

None of this is an endorsement of Thompson and co.; rather it's an indictment of knee-jerk reactions to disappointing seasons.
blank
Zero2Cool
16 years ago
Firing his defensive staff after winning only six games, which most will say we lost a lot of games due to our defense, I think makes Mike's seat warm.

I think it's produce time or go time.
UserPostedImage
warhawk
16 years ago

People seem to forget that in the first couple of years of the Holmgren and Wolf era we multiple times didn't improve our record and seemed unable to get over the hump.. albeit the seasons never ended below .500.. but it wasn't like it all came together in a single season..

Building a long term competitive team takes time..

"zombieslayer" wrote:



The thing is, who cares?

We never had a losing season. His record speaks for itself:
1992 - 9-7
1993 - 10-8
1994 - 10-8
1995 - 13-6
1996 - 16-3
1997 - 15-4
1998 - 11-6

No losing seasons, one SB ring. 75 wins and 37 losses in that time period for an amazing .670 %.

The thing is, it did come together all in one season. We went from being losers to winners in only one season. 1991, the year before Mike Holmgren, we were 4-12 and only better than the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFC Central. A year later, we're 9-7 and barely miss the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs, but you can tell we're improving even if the record was the same. A year after that, we're taken seriously as SB contentders. A year after that, we win the dang thing.

"pack93z" wrote:



How about head to head? Since MM has been here his record is 27-21 and in those same last three years Holmgren has been 23-25 and the one time they met in the playoffs MM beat the shit out of them.

You can say well we had the better team. O.k. so you don't give any credit for that to the HC? I mean it's all about wins and losses right?

I understand what Holmgren did here but not really interested in basing what we should do now on what happened over a decade ago.
"The train is leaving the station."
porky88
16 years ago

Well Pork I will agree if we lose 10 ballgames straight up with no insane number of injuries that were to cripple us beyond competitiveness then the heat will be on.

As far as development goes you have to look at the material they have had to work with. Jake Delhomme is actually a testimony for getting the most out of a player that doesnt' have half the tools of a Montana or Young.

McCarthy has been right by Rodgers' side for four years now and his development era is coming to a close vs. now applying it and getting more experience. I would be hardpressed to believe Holmgren could come in now and get more out of Rodgers than McCarthy and would say visa versa if it had been Holmgren working with him from the beginning as well.

I will agree though if they push McCarthy out Holmgren would be certainly somebody to give a hard look at. For me, however, it would be a shame to see McCarthy go. He, like all HC's has his strong area and that happens to be on the offensive side of the ball. Considering he did not get what you might consider stellar play from his O line they still managed to put up the 5th best scoring offense which is pretty remarkable.

Where the problem for him lie in the fact he's responsible for the entire staff and the defense let him down horribly.

If he had the DC Holmgren had we wouldn't be having this discussion and McCarthy got the message so hopefully we are now headed right straight towards '96.

"warhawk" wrote:



You really can't compare the two when it comes to QB's. It's not fair. Holmgrem's lists of achievements with QB's is unbelievable especially if throw in Mark Brunell as another project.

McCarthy's is nice considering what he did, but Holmgrem's is great or even amazing if you want to go there.

Steve Young - MVP and Super Bowl Winner
Brett Favre - MVP and Super Bowl Winner
Mark Brunell - Lead Jags to Two AFC Championships Pro Bowl player too.
Matt Hasselbeck - Lead Seahawks to a Super Bowl. Pro Bowl player too.

I don't think McCarthy is a poor coach or anything, but he's not anywhere near Holmgrem's level as a coach. That's my point.

I wonder whether or not McCarthy is another Norv Turner. Great coordinator and excellent with quarterbacks, but not cut out to be the lead guy.

This year will tells us that in my view.

I don't think he is Norv Turner, but again, if he is, then a change is needed. Holmgrem undoubtedly would top my list for replacements especially since he knows the area and I think Aaron Rodgers would fit his offense very well.
warhawk
16 years ago
Well Mike McCarthy is right there with him IMO and is an excellent football coach.
Look what he did with Brett Favre? Revived his career is what he did. Reigned him in and and took control and showed Brett what he could do without having to take all the risks. Came up with a perfect game plan for Brett to operate under and maybe the biggest thing he got Brett to buy into it.
Brett could not do in NY what he did in GB. Right back to the old days.

MM also took over a team in transition and managed the youngest team in the NFL and I don't mean no small transition either. No more Wahle, Rivera, Flanny, Green, Hondo, Bubba. New guys shuffling in left and right in Wells, Spitz, Colledge, Jennings, Hawk, Jones, etc,. When things were not going well in his first year he did not panic and turned that team around. The only thing that stopped us that year is we ran out of games.

There's only a handfull of players from the last '04 playoff team left when he get's them back in '07 and one poor year where the defense choked repeatedly and he's on a "hot seat"?

I'm sorry but to compare what this guys done with this team and what he started with to a Norv Turner and what he had there right out of the gun? C'mon.

You put MM in charge of that team and he's got one SB under his belt at least. Maybe two.

About as many as I expect him to win here over the next few years. The shame of it is that's looking like what it will take to get people off his ass.
"The train is leaving the station."
packersfan101101
16 years ago
he didnt do much anything in Seattle if i remember correctly, and i wasnt very impressed with him so no i wouldnt want him back.
brandon jackson is amazing
zombieslayer
16 years ago


I agree. I just find it funny that when fans last year were calling for Sanders and Stock to be fired, they were "fair weather fans", but when McCarthy fired them, (yeah I know Stock "retired"), the same people who were defending them, agreed they needed to go.

I remember being called fair weather when I wanted Ahmad Carroll gone. Then, as soon as he was cut, the same people that were defending him (even after his last game) were saying, "I'm glad he's gone." LOL

"IronMan" wrote:



:lol:

I'm one of the guys who wanted Sanders and Stock gone. And yes, Stock was fired. Happened to several of my father's friends. What they do is ask you to retire. If you don't retire, you get fired. But they actually give you financial motivation to retire, if you know what I mean.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
porky88
16 years ago

Well Mike McCarthy is right there with him IMO and is an excellent football coach.
Look what he did with Brett Favre? Revived his career is what he did. Reigned him in and and took control and showed Brett what he could do without having to take all the risks. Came up with a perfect game plan for Brett to operate under and maybe the biggest thing he got Brett to buy into it.
Brett could not do in NY what he did in GB. Right back to the old days.

Mike McCarthy also took over a team in transition and managed the youngest team in the NFL and I don't mean no small transition either. No more Wahle, Rivera, Flanny, Green, Hondo, Bubba. New guys shuffling in left and right in Wells, Spitz, Colledge, Jennings, Hawk, Jones, etc,. When things were not going well in his first year he did not panic and turned that team around. The only thing that stopped us that year is we ran out of games.

There's only a handfull of players from the last '04 playoff team left when he get's them back in '07 and one poor year where the defense choked repeatedly and he's on a "hot seat"?

I'm sorry but to compare what this guys done with this team and what he started with to a Norv Turner and what he had there right out of the gun? C'mon.

You put Mike McCarthy in charge of that team and he's got one SB under his belt at least. Maybe two.

About as many as I expect him to win here over the next few years. The shame of it is that's looking like what it will take to get people off his ass.

"warhawk" wrote:



You can't put McCarthy right there with Holmgrem. You just can't and that's my point. Your trying to imply or you are that McCarthy is every bit as good as Holmgrem was back in the 90's. Nevermind that Holmgrem has come from a winning tradition and McCarthy hasn't, but let's look at the facts.

Holmgrem is a Hall of Fame coach.

He's been to four NFC Championship games, three Super Bowls and won another.

He won five straight division titles in a row in Seattle.

He won another three in a row in Green Bay.

That's eight division titles.

McCarthy so far has one winning season as a Head Coach.

That's it.

I see a lot of poor qualities in McCarthy so far. I see good ones, but I'm not going to ignore the poor ones. McCarthy often says one thing and they're the complete opposite. Such as we're a physical team. That's just not true. GB is more finesse now than they've been in along time. Sherman's teams were more physical to be honest. He says they'll be disciplined, but they're one of the most penalized teams in football. McCarthy has been average at best as a playcaller. He was amazing in New Orleans, but he's been up and down as much as anyone can be in Green Bay.

Not to say McCarthy can't become a good head coach, but he has along ways to go to be Mike Holmgrem. If he goes 6-10 this year, he'll solidify my fear that he might be a Norv Turner. I don't mean literally the same guy. I would take McCarthy over Turner, but I mean in that mold as a coach. Norv Turner is the classic example of what I'm talking about and that's why I use him.

Good coordinator, poor head coach.

Again, I'm not saying McCarthy is, but I recognize the fact that yes he could go that way.

Never did and have with Holmgrem.

I have liked the off-season though and I am encouraged, but not sold yet. Getting there though. I'll know more in training camp.
IronMan
16 years ago
Porky, its HolmgreN. (Sorry, I couldn't take it anymore) LOL
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