IronMan
15 years ago

jesus h you guys. unbelievable. you all claim to not be "fair weather fans" and while that may be true about the team in general, the very minute we lose a goddamn game you all lube up your index fingers and start pointing them up the anuses of the coaching staff and GM's.

unbelievable.

"warhawk" wrote:


Does firing the entire defensive staff after one losing season make McCarthy a "fair weather" head coach?

"IronMan" wrote:



I would say it makes him a smart coach.

"TwinkieGorilla" wrote:


I agree. I just find it funny that when fans last year were calling for Sanders and Stock to be fired, they were "fair weather fans", but when McCarthy fired them, (yeah I know Stock "retired"), the same people who were defending them, agreed they needed to go.

I remember being called fair weather when I wanted Ahmad Carroll gone. Then, as soon as he was cut, the same people that were defending him (even after his last game) were saying, "I'm glad he's gone." LOL
ILikeThePackers39
15 years ago

People seem to forget that in the first couple of years of the Holmgren and Wolf era we multiple times didn't improve our record and seemed unable to get over the hump.. albeit the seasons never ended below .500.. but it wasn't like it all came together in a single season..

Building a long term competitive team takes time..

"zombieslayer" wrote:



The thing is, who cares?

We never had a losing season. His record speaks for itself:
1992 - 9-7
1993 - 10-8
1994 - 10-8
1995 - 13-6
1996 - 16-3
1997 - 15-4
1998 - 11-6

No losing seasons, one SB ring. 75 wins and 37 losses in that time period for an amazing .670 %.

The thing is, it did come together all in one season. We went from being losers to winners in only one season. 1991, the year before Mike Holmgren, we were 4-12 and only better than the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFC Central. A year later, we're 9-7 and barely miss the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs, but you can tell we're improving even if the record was the same. A year after that, we're taken seriously as SB contentders. A year after that, we win the dang thing.

"pack93z" wrote:




I care. I care, because every time you upset the apple cart you have to take the time to put the damn thing back together again.

People hate the Patriots, but that is one stable system that knows what it's doing, and that's reflected in their overall consistency season-to-season.

Lots of people hate the Steelers, but they appear to know what they're doing, and they always stay the course.

The best, most consistent teams tend to be the ones that let their system mature and then stay the course - if we chuck every regime out based on wins and losses without even looking at the possible causes for those losses (my old nemesis "Injuries ain't no excuse!") then sooner or later we become the Arizona Cardinals or the other teams that reinvent themselves year after year looking for a quick fix.

I don't like assessing a season based on absolutes and narrow criteria. There's no way I'd ever do my job that way, and I would hope that's not the Packer way.

None of this is an endorsement of Thompson and co.; rather it's an indictment of knee-jerk reactions to disappointing seasons.
blank
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Firing his defensive staff after winning only six games, which most will say we lost a lot of games due to our defense, I think makes Mike's seat warm.

I think it's produce time or go time.
UserPostedImage
warhawk
15 years ago

People seem to forget that in the first couple of years of the Holmgren and Wolf era we multiple times didn't improve our record and seemed unable to get over the hump.. albeit the seasons never ended below .500.. but it wasn't like it all came together in a single season..

Building a long term competitive team takes time..

"zombieslayer" wrote:



The thing is, who cares?

We never had a losing season. His record speaks for itself:
1992 - 9-7
1993 - 10-8
1994 - 10-8
1995 - 13-6
1996 - 16-3
1997 - 15-4
1998 - 11-6

No losing seasons, one SB ring. 75 wins and 37 losses in that time period for an amazing .670 %.

The thing is, it did come together all in one season. We went from being losers to winners in only one season. 1991, the year before Mike Holmgren, we were 4-12 and only better than the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the NFC Central. A year later, we're 9-7 and barely miss the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs. A year after that, we're in the Playoffs, but you can tell we're improving even if the record was the same. A year after that, we're taken seriously as SB contentders. A year after that, we win the dang thing.

"pack93z" wrote:



How about head to head? Since Mike McCarthy has been here his record is 27-21 and in those same last three years Holmgren has been 23-25 and the one time they met in the playoffs Mike McCarthy beat the shit out of them.

You can say well we had the better team. O.k. so you don't give any credit for that to the HC? I mean it's all about wins and losses right?

I understand what Holmgren did here but not really interested in basing what we should do now on what happened over a decade ago.
"The train is leaving the station."
porky88
15 years ago

Well Pork I will agree if we lose 10 ballgames straight up with no insane number of injuries that were to cripple us beyond competitiveness then the heat will be on.

As far as development goes you have to look at the material they have had to work with. Jake Delhomme is actually a testimony for getting the most out of a player that doesnt' have half the tools of a Montana or Young.

McCarthy has been right by Rodgers' side for four years now and his development era is coming to a close vs. now applying it and getting more experience. I would be hardpressed to believe Holmgren could come in now and get more out of Rodgers than McCarthy and would say visa versa if it had been Holmgren working with him from the beginning as well.

I will agree though if they push McCarthy out Holmgren would be certainly somebody to give a hard look at. For me, however, it would be a shame to see McCarthy go. He, like all HC's has his strong area and that happens to be on the offensive side of the ball. Considering he did not get what you might consider stellar play from his O line they still managed to put up the 5th best scoring offense which is pretty remarkable.

Where the problem for him lie in the fact he's responsible for the entire staff and the defense let him down horribly.

If he had the DC Holmgren had we wouldn't be having this discussion and McCarthy got the message so hopefully we are now headed right straight towards '96.

"warhawk" wrote:



You really can't compare the two when it comes to QB's. It's not fair. Holmgrem's lists of achievements with QB's is unbelievable especially if throw in Mark Brunell as another project.

McCarthy's is nice considering what he did, but Holmgrem's is great or even amazing if you want to go there.

Steve Young - MVP and Super Bowl Winner
Brett Favre - MVP and Super Bowl Winner
Mark Brunell - Lead Jags to Two AFC Championships Pro Bowl player too.
Matt Hasselbeck - Lead Seahawks to a Super Bowl. Pro Bowl player too.

I don't think McCarthy is a poor coach or anything, but he's not anywhere near Holmgrem's level as a coach. That's my point.

I wonder whether or not McCarthy is another Norv Turner. Great coordinator and excellent with quarterbacks, but not cut out to be the lead guy.

This year will tells us that in my view.

I don't think he is Norv Turner, but again, if he is, then a change is needed. Holmgrem undoubtedly would top my list for replacements especially since he knows the area and I think Aaron Rodgers would fit his offense very well.
warhawk
15 years ago
Well Mike McCarthy is right there with him IMO and is an excellent football coach.
Look what he did with Brett Favre? Revived his career is what he did. Reigned him in and and took control and showed Brett what he could do without having to take all the risks. Came up with a perfect game plan for Brett to operate under and maybe the biggest thing he got Brett to buy into it.
Brett could not do in NY what he did in GB. Right back to the old days.
Mike McCarthy also took over a team in transition and managed the youngest team in the NFL and I don't mean no small transition either. No more Wahle, Rivera, Flanny, Green, Hondo, Bubba. New guys shuffling in left and right in Wells, Spitz, Colledge, Jennings, Hawk, Jones, etc,. When things were not going well in his first year he did not panic and turned that team around. The only thing that stopped us that year is we ran out of games.

There's only a handfull of players from the last '04 playoff team left when he get's them back in '07 and one poor year where the defense choked repeatedly and he's on a "hot seat"?

I'm sorry but to compare what this guys done with this team and what he started with to a Norv Turner and what he had there right out of the gun? C'mon.

You put Mike McCarthy in charge of that team and he's got one SB under his belt at least. Maybe two.

About as many as I expect him to win here over the next few years. The shame of it is that's looking like what it will take to get people off his ass.
"The train is leaving the station."
packersfan101101
15 years ago
he didnt do much anything in Seattle if i remember correctly, and i wasnt very impressed with him so no i wouldnt want him back.
brandon jackson is amazing
zombieslayer
15 years ago


I agree. I just find it funny that when fans last year were calling for Sanders and Stock to be fired, they were "fair weather fans", but when McCarthy fired them, (yeah I know Stock "retired"), the same people who were defending them, agreed they needed to go.

I remember being called fair weather when I wanted Ahmad Carroll gone. Then, as soon as he was cut, the same people that were defending him (even after his last game) were saying, "I'm glad he's gone." LOL

"IronMan" wrote:



:lol:

I'm one of the guys who wanted Sanders and Stock gone. And yes, Stock was fired. Happened to several of my father's friends. What they do is ask you to retire. If you don't retire, you get fired. But they actually give you financial motivation to retire, if you know what I mean.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
porky88
15 years ago

Well Mike McCarthy is right there with him IMO and is an excellent football coach.
Look what he did with Brett Favre? Revived his career is what he did. Reigned him in and and took control and showed Brett what he could do without having to take all the risks. Came up with a perfect game plan for Brett to operate under and maybe the biggest thing he got Brett to buy into it.
Brett could not do in NY what he did in GB. Right back to the old days.

Mike McCarthy also took over a team in transition and managed the youngest team in the NFL and I don't mean no small transition either. No more Wahle, Rivera, Flanny, Green, Hondo, Bubba. New guys shuffling in left and right in Wells, Spitz, Colledge, Jennings, Hawk, Jones, etc,. When things were not going well in his first year he did not panic and turned that team around. The only thing that stopped us that year is we ran out of games.

There's only a handfull of players from the last '04 playoff team left when he get's them back in '07 and one poor year where the defense choked repeatedly and he's on a "hot seat"?

I'm sorry but to compare what this guys done with this team and what he started with to a Norv Turner and what he had there right out of the gun? C'mon.

You put Mike McCarthy in charge of that team and he's got one SB under his belt at least. Maybe two.

About as many as I expect him to win here over the next few years. The shame of it is that's looking like what it will take to get people off his ass.

"warhawk" wrote:



You can't put McCarthy right there with Holmgrem. You just can't and that's my point. Your trying to imply or you are that McCarthy is every bit as good as Holmgrem was back in the 90's. Nevermind that Holmgrem has come from a winning tradition and McCarthy hasn't, but let's look at the facts.

Holmgrem is a Hall of Fame coach.

He's been to four NFC Championship games, three Super Bowls and won another.

He won five straight division titles in a row in Seattle.

He won another three in a row in Green Bay.

That's eight division titles.

McCarthy so far has one winning season as a Head Coach.

That's it.

I see a lot of poor qualities in McCarthy so far. I see good ones, but I'm not going to ignore the poor ones. McCarthy often says one thing and they're the complete opposite. Such as we're a physical team. That's just not true. GB is more finesse now than they've been in along time. Sherman's teams were more physical to be honest. He says they'll be disciplined, but they're one of the most penalized teams in football. McCarthy has been average at best as a playcaller. He was amazing in New Orleans, but he's been up and down as much as anyone can be in Green Bay.

Not to say McCarthy can't become a good head coach, but he has along ways to go to be Mike Holmgrem. If he goes 6-10 this year, he'll solidify my fear that he might be a Norv Turner. I don't mean literally the same guy. I would take McCarthy over Turner, but I mean in that mold as a coach. Norv Turner is the classic example of what I'm talking about and that's why I use him.

Good coordinator, poor head coach.

Again, I'm not saying McCarthy is, but I recognize the fact that yes he could go that way.

Never did and have with Holmgrem.

I have liked the off-season though and I am encouraged, but not sold yet. Getting there though. I'll know more in training camp.
IronMan
15 years ago
Porky, its HolmgreN. (Sorry, I couldn't take it anymore) LOL
Fan Shout
beast (2h) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (10h) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (15h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (16h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
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