4PackGirl
15 years ago
wow - nfl comin down hard on the guys, eh? i completely agree that they alone are responsible for whatever goes in their bodies. when it comes to "nutritional supplements", by now every player should think - RED FLAG every time they take one of these!
DakotaT
15 years ago
I was wondering if it was beyond the realgm of possibilty here that all these suspended players may have taken the banned substance in addition to the Star Caps? I don't believe Kevin Williams has a weight problem, but it isn't too much of a stretch for me to believe he was masking steroids. Now Pat Williams, I have no problem believing needs diet pills.
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dfosterf
15 years ago

I was wondering if it was beyond the realgm of possibilty here that all these suspended players may have taken the banned substance in addition to the Star Caps? I don't believe Kevin Williams has a weight problem, but it isn't too much of a stretch for me to believe he was masking steroids. Now Pat Williams, I have no problem believing needs diet pills.

"DakotaT" wrote:



According to several posters at PPO, who did a bit of research on the subject for the very reason you brought up--- These pills also mask/confuse tests for marijuana usage. I can't go back and get the exact post, as they are up around 70 pages in there right now.

As to Jolly, two things are going on. As I understand it, his violation(s) are presently under the personal conduct policy, and because he has no "priors", the commish seems to be holding in abeyance any punishments until the legal system takes their pound of flesh from him. It has been argued that the commish doesn't do anything until after a conviction, which is false. It is my understanding he could decide to suspend him if he so chooses, apparently he has decided to wait. This isn't special treatment, it is simply how he has approached things in the past...case-by-case, if you will. Pack93z/others can correct that, but I'm pretty sure this is how it is. All that being said, Jolly has troubles...big ones, and I strongly suspect that he is going to get creamed...both in court and by the commish... he was holdin' a felony-full of cough syrup/codeine, whatever.
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago
Foster.. you are correct.. these infractions fall under different lines of policies.. it is debatable that they should but they do. Steroid policy verse Conduct.. more times than not, the league office lets the legal system run its course on the Conduct end of it.. but the NFL is the judge, jury and executioner on the Performance enhancing end...

Personally.. I think illegal drug issues should fall into the Performance side of things.. but the CBA is pretty clear on what falls into it and what doesn't... the Players Union signed off on that policy.. that is where I see this injunction that the Williams are throwing out there is going nowhere but maybe buying them some time.. you know to finish out the season.

There are underlying issues in here though that the league office wing of approving and advising players what is okay and not.. they dropped the ball on this deal.

But it all reverts back to the language in the policy that the player is solely responsible for what they put into their body and they are to call into the league office to validate if an item is cleared or not.. these players didn't do that.. injunction should fail on that wording right there.

I disagree with the policy, but it is what it is. Union and League approved.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dfosterf
15 years ago
From PFT-

Quote:

Amid reports (per Chris Mortensen of ESPN) that the attorney for Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams will be filing suit on Wednesday and could sue both the NFL and the NFL Players Association were told that the NFLPA currently is plotting a challenge to the StarCaps suspensions, which would include an attempt to block the suspensions until the lawsuit is resolved.

The lawsuit, as we explained in a Tuesday night item for SportingNews.com, could include theories arising from the failure of Dr. John Lombardo, administrator of the leagues steroids policy, to disclose to players that StarCaps secretly contains a prescription medication. The suit also could allege that the NFL violated the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement in suspending the players who took StarCaps, given that the league knew StarCaps secretly contained a banned substance and didnt specifically warn the players not to take it.

Technically, the steroids policy isnt part of the CBA. Instead, Article XLIV, Section 6(b) of the 2006 amendment to the CBA states that the existing policy will remain in effect, subject to modifications to which both sides agree.

Thus, to prevail on the latter count, the NFLPA would need to persuade the Court that the leagues failure to disclose its knowledge that StarCaps contains Bumetanide in some way violates the terms of the steroids policy. It could be an uphill climb, since the policy is clear players are responsible for what is in their bodies, and they are encouraged to use only those supplements that appear on the leagues pre-approved list.

The more intriguing possibility, in our view, is that the NFLPA will be sued as by two or more players while the NFLPA also is suing on their behalf.

Under the law, a union may be sued for breach of the duty of fair representation. The law requires proof of something more than mere negligence; the plaintiffs must show that the unions actions were arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith.

The argument against the union apparently would be that agreeing to a procedure that allows the initial decision and the appeal to be controlled by the Commissioner of the NFL is per se evidence that the union behaved in an arbitrary manner and/or that the union exhibited bad faith as to any players who are accused of violating the steroids policy, the substance abuse policy, or the Personal Conduct Policy.

And, frankly, its hard for us to disagree. How in the hell did the union ever agree to let the league be the final arbiter of these appeals?

Its like having the prosecutor in the Plaxico Burress case also serve as the judge. And as the appeals court. And as each of the nine members of the United States Supreme Court.

So at a time when it appears that the league might be flexing its muscles under these policies in order to goad the union into offering major concessions during the next round of CBA talks in order to get the league to agree to refer the appeal hearings to a neutral arbitrator, the NFLPA might find itself liable to one or more players for failing to secure such a procedure in the first place.

_________________________________________________

These Vikings are experts in the court system---Frankly, I don't think the league or the player's association stands a chance against them...they simply have way too much experience in Minneapolis :icon_smile:
DakotaT
15 years ago
I guess if they don't like the rules made by their employer, they always have the right to quit and seek other employment.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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15 years ago
Well there goes Ziggy's Christmas present from Rodger.. challenging the league office will at the very least cost him is fruitcake and nuts via Goodell.

:lol:
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dfosterf
15 years ago

Well there goes Ziggy's Christmas present from Rodger.. challenging the league office will at the very least cost him is fruitcake and nuts via Goodell.

:lol:

"pack93z" wrote:



Maybe the next time the Vikes tamper with one of our players, or one of their DE's repeatedly delivers cheap-shots, or half of their team is caught with a bunch of hookers, or.....well, maybe they will be sorry for tryin' to mess with the commish...

I can see it now... Referee: "Personal foul , #69, defense, 15 yards, 1st down."

Jared Allen: "Jeez, ref, you guys used to wait until AFTER the National Anthem was sung."
Cheesey
15 years ago
The whole Vikings TEAM is a "personal foul!"LOLOL!!!
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dfosterf
15 years ago
I just read about it on the Minneapolis-Star-Tribune website.

They filed for a restraining order---

Not in Federal Court
Not even in State Court
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hennipin County District Court--- courtroom approximately 100 yards from the metrodome.

(I swear you might think I'm making the next part up)

Judge Gary Larson presiding.

Definitely of Minnesota Twins vs. MLB fame--- finding for the Twins, amazingly enough.

Not sure if he's the former Minnesota Viking or the cartoonist, or perhaps both.

Home cooking in Minneapolis tonight!
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Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
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Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
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Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
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beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
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Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
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Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
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beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
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