4PackGirl
16 years ago
wow - nfl comin down hard on the guys, eh? i completely agree that they alone are responsible for whatever goes in their bodies. when it comes to "nutritional supplements", by now every player should think - RED FLAG every time they take one of these!
DakotaT
16 years ago
I was wondering if it was beyond the realgm of possibilty here that all these suspended players may have taken the banned substance in addition to the Star Caps? I don't believe Kevin Williams has a weight problem, but it isn't too much of a stretch for me to believe he was masking steroids. Now Pat Williams, I have no problem believing needs diet pills.
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dfosterf
16 years ago

I was wondering if it was beyond the realgm of possibilty here that all these suspended players may have taken the banned substance in addition to the Star Caps? I don't believe Kevin Williams has a weight problem, but it isn't too much of a stretch for me to believe he was masking steroids. Now Pat Williams, I have no problem believing needs diet pills.

"DakotaT" wrote:



According to several posters at PPO, who did a bit of research on the subject for the very reason you brought up--- These pills also mask/confuse tests for marijuana usage. I can't go back and get the exact post, as they are up around 70 pages in there right now.

As to Jolly, two things are going on. As I understand it, his violation(s) are presently under the personal conduct policy, and because he has no "priors", the commish seems to be holding in abeyance any punishments until the legal system takes their pound of flesh from him. It has been argued that the commish doesn't do anything until after a conviction, which is false. It is my understanding he could decide to suspend him if he so chooses, apparently he has decided to wait. This isn't special treatment, it is simply how he has approached things in the past...case-by-case, if you will. Pack93z/others can correct that, but I'm pretty sure this is how it is. All that being said, Jolly has troubles...big ones, and I strongly suspect that he is going to get creamed...both in court and by the commish... he was holdin' a felony-full of cough syrup/codeine, whatever.
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
16 years ago
Foster.. you are correct.. these infractions fall under different lines of policies.. it is debatable that they should but they do. Steroid policy verse Conduct.. more times than not, the league office lets the legal system run its course on the Conduct end of it.. but the NFL is the judge, jury and executioner on the Performance enhancing end...

Personally.. I think illegal drug issues should fall into the Performance side of things.. but the CBA is pretty clear on what falls into it and what doesn't... the Players Union signed off on that policy.. that is where I see this injunction that the Williams are throwing out there is going nowhere but maybe buying them some time.. you know to finish out the season.

There are underlying issues in here though that the league office wing of approving and advising players what is okay and not.. they dropped the ball on this deal.

But it all reverts back to the language in the policy that the player is solely responsible for what they put into their body and they are to call into the league office to validate if an item is cleared or not.. these players didn't do that.. injunction should fail on that wording right there.

I disagree with the policy, but it is what it is. Union and League approved.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dfosterf
16 years ago
From PFT-

Quote:

Amid reports (per Chris Mortensen of ESPN) that the attorney for Vikings defensive tackles Pat and Kevin Williams will be filing suit on Wednesday and could sue both the NFL and the NFL Players Association were told that the NFLPA currently is plotting a challenge to the StarCaps suspensions, which would include an attempt to block the suspensions until the lawsuit is resolved.

The lawsuit, as we explained in a Tuesday night item for SportingNews.com, could include theories arising from the failure of Dr. John Lombardo, administrator of the leagues steroids policy, to disclose to players that StarCaps secretly contains a prescription medication. The suit also could allege that the NFL violated the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement in suspending the players who took StarCaps, given that the league knew StarCaps secretly contained a banned substance and didnt specifically warn the players not to take it.

Technically, the steroids policy isnt part of the CBA. Instead, Article XLIV, Section 6(b) of the 2006 amendment to the CBA states that the existing policy will remain in effect, subject to modifications to which both sides agree.

Thus, to prevail on the latter count, the NFLPA would need to persuade the Court that the leagues failure to disclose its knowledge that StarCaps contains Bumetanide in some way violates the terms of the steroids policy. It could be an uphill climb, since the policy is clear players are responsible for what is in their bodies, and they are encouraged to use only those supplements that appear on the leagues pre-approved list.

The more intriguing possibility, in our view, is that the NFLPA will be sued as by two or more players while the NFLPA also is suing on their behalf.

Under the law, a union may be sued for breach of the duty of fair representation. The law requires proof of something more than mere negligence; the plaintiffs must show that the unions actions were arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith.

The argument against the union apparently would be that agreeing to a procedure that allows the initial decision and the appeal to be controlled by the Commissioner of the NFL is per se evidence that the union behaved in an arbitrary manner and/or that the union exhibited bad faith as to any players who are accused of violating the steroids policy, the substance abuse policy, or the Personal Conduct Policy.

And, frankly, its hard for us to disagree. How in the hell did the union ever agree to let the league be the final arbiter of these appeals?

Its like having the prosecutor in the Plaxico Burress case also serve as the judge. And as the appeals court. And as each of the nine members of the United States Supreme Court.

So at a time when it appears that the league might be flexing its muscles under these policies in order to goad the union into offering major concessions during the next round of CBA talks in order to get the league to agree to refer the appeal hearings to a neutral arbitrator, the NFLPA might find itself liable to one or more players for failing to secure such a procedure in the first place.

_________________________________________________

These Vikings are experts in the court system---Frankly, I don't think the league or the player's association stands a chance against them...they simply have way too much experience in Minneapolis :icon_smile:
DakotaT
16 years ago
I guess if they don't like the rules made by their employer, they always have the right to quit and seek other employment.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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16 years ago
Well there goes Ziggy's Christmas present from Rodger.. challenging the league office will at the very least cost him is fruitcake and nuts via Goodell.

:lol:
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dfosterf
16 years ago

Well there goes Ziggy's Christmas present from Rodger.. challenging the league office will at the very least cost him is fruitcake and nuts via Goodell.

:lol:

"pack93z" wrote:



Maybe the next time the Vikes tamper with one of our players, or one of their DE's repeatedly delivers cheap-shots, or half of their team is caught with a bunch of hookers, or.....well, maybe they will be sorry for tryin' to mess with the commish...

I can see it now... Referee: "Personal foul , #69, defense, 15 yards, 1st down."

Jared Allen: "Jeez, ref, you guys used to wait until AFTER the National Anthem was sung."
Cheesey
16 years ago
The whole Vikings TEAM is a "personal foul!"LOLOL!!!
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dfosterf
16 years ago
I just read about it on the Minneapolis-Star-Tribune website.

They filed for a restraining order---

Not in Federal Court
Not even in State Court
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Hennipin County District Court--- courtroom approximately 100 yards from the metrodome.

(I swear you might think I'm making the next part up)

Judge Gary Larson presiding.

Definitely of Minnesota Twins vs. MLB fame--- finding for the Twins, amazingly enough.

Not sure if he's the former Minnesota Viking or the cartoonist, or perhaps both.

Home cooking in Minneapolis tonight!
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (7h) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (14h) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (21h) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (21h) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
Martha Careful (10-Feb) : I cant help but feel good about how well the Packers D played in Philly during the playoffs
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