steveishere
9 years ago
Texas why are you acting like Guion is some slow tub of lard? He's more of athletic type with some length. You act like him and Raji are one in the same but they really aren't that similar at all. The guy was a decent enough pass rusher last year and was more of a playmaker than fans gave him credit for. I'm not expecting him to do much this week coming off a suspension but he's going to be a useful player to have on the field during this season.
Tezzy
9 years ago
I get a major clue when we get more quality depth in the middle of our front seven, which will allow Matthews to be even more productive from the inside.
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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

Texas why are you acting like Guion is some slow tub of lard? He's more of athletic type with some length. You act like him and Raji are one in the same but they really aren't that similar at all. The guy was a decent enough pass rusher last year and was more of a playmaker than fans gave him credit for. I'm not expecting him to do much this week coming off a suspension but he's going to be a useful player to have on the field during this season.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I hope you're right, because they seem committed to playing him. I see Guion as a hustle guy with limited talent and athleticism. That's not all bad, but I don't like the whole concept of linemen mainly there to occupy space. It's way too easy to run around them, and in a lot of cases (Raji), they are not all that hard for O Lines to push around anyway. Yeah, I know, Raji has been better this year, but he has to give 110% just to be average, and that doesn't seem to last past the first quarter. Maybe the plan is to let him burn himself out, then sub in Guion and let him do the same. That would take us to halftime anyway hahahaha.


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beast
9 years ago

I see Guion as a ... guy with limited talent and athleticism.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 


Isn't that how you see every linemen?

Seems like you'd prefer watching football with no linemen at all...

Texas why are you acting like Guion is some slow tub of lard?

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



My guess is because he's a linemen... asTexas seems to think that about most linemen.


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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

Isn't that how you see every linemen?

Seems like you'd prefer watching football with no linemen at all...



My guess is because he's a linemen... asTexas seems to think that about most linemen.

Originally Posted by: beast 



I like Mike Daniels. I liked Henry Jordan and Reggie White and Howard Green and that other huge guy I can't think of the name of. Mobility is great; Strength is great. D Lineman with too little of both is what I don't care for.

In many situations, I have to say, that 2 man D Line thing, or even 0 or 1 guy down in a lineman's stance, as I saw several times last game, I prefer that along with more LBs and DBs.

How many D Linemen who have zero chance to catch Alex Smith much less Kaepernick would YOU like to see on the field for the Packers?
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beast
9 years ago

I like Mike Daniels. I liked Henry Jordan and Reggie White and Howard Green and that other huge guy I can't think of the name of.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You like Howard Green but dislike Raji and Guion? ... how is Green different than those two? He's less athletic and disappeared faster... that's about it.

In many situations, I have to say, that 2 man D Line thing, or even 0 or 1 guy down in a lineman's stance, as I saw several times last game, I prefer that along with more LBs and DBs.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Honestly I think you just don't get the trenches part of football and all you want is speed... those big guys have to cover more than one gap which frees up the speed guys. It's not the players you dislike it's the schemes...

You'd love schemes that were almost completely one gap penetration styles like Tampa 2 and Cover 2 but hate all the two gaps schemes which is almost all of the 3-4 packages.

The Packers 2-4 nickel package is simply a 4-2 nickel with the OLBers acting as DEs.


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Mucky Tundra
9 years ago

I would have been fine with just cutting Guion or possibly having him replace Raji. We really don't need to get away from mobility to get more blubber in the line. The key to stopping the run is Matthews at ILB regardless of who is in the D Line.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



[TWITTER]534422208039620610?ref_src=twsrc^tfw[/TWITTER]

Seems to be mobile enough to me
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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

You like Howard Green but dislike Raji and Guion? ... how is Green different than those two? He's less athletic and disappeared faster... that's about it.



Honestly I think you just don't get the trenches part of football and all you want is speed... those big guys have to cover more than one gap which frees up the speed guys. It's not the players you dislike it's the schemes...

You'd love schemes that were almost completely one gap penetration styles like Tampa 2 and Cover 2 but hate all the two gaps schemes which is almost all of the 3-4 packages.

The Packers 2-4 nickel package is simply a 4-2 nickel with the OLBers acting as DEs.

Originally Posted by: beast 



I PLAYED in the trenches back in the day, and I was an unathletic try-hard kind of guy. Hence, I recognize the value of more mobile and athletic players.

As for Howard Green, my recollection of him was strength, Vince Wilfork-like - standing there like a wall/pushing the pile instead of getting pushed around like Raji and to a lesser extent, Guion (and yeah, Mucky, Guion looked kinda athletic on that one play, but it seems pretty exceptional - better him than Raji, but less than almost anybody else you could play).

You got that right about the schemes. I HATE the concept of D Linemen essentially being O Linemen to enable the LBs. That to me is playing D with 8 or 9 players capable of making a play.

Your 2-4 package thing is also spot on - exactly my point - more mobile and athletic personnel. Play them on the line, fine. Just don't use the fat boys - as the Packers generally don't in a lot of situations. When you had those 2 OLBs acting as DEs, did you notice who the two DTs were? Not Raji, etc. - I think I saw Datone Jones and Peppers inside several times. That wouldn't work as an every down thing, obviously, but it does illustrate the point about athleticism and mobility over largeness.


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buckeyepackfan
9 years ago
Texas

You are never going to be happy

The whole concept of the 3-4 is for the "big fatties" as you call them to take on the "big fatties" across from them to free up the 4 lbr's to make plays.

Just as a team can't put 5 wr's on the field every play and expect it to work, the D can't run, as The Packers call it a "pshyco package" every down and not expect to get ran all over.

Raji has been dominating so far, Guion is going to be added to the rotation and will make the d-line that much stronger.

The Packers 53 is finally taking shape.
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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

Texas

You are never going to be happy

The whole concept of the 3-4 is for the "big fatties" as you call them to take on the "big fatties" across from them to free up the 4 lbr's to make plays.

Just as a team can't put 5 wr's on the field every play and expect it to work, the D can't run, as The Packers call it a "pshyco package" every down and not expect to get ran all over.

Raji has been dominating so far, Guion is going to be added to the rotation and will make the d-line that much stronger.

The Packers 53 is finally taking shape.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



I guess based on your screen name, you don't follow the Badgers. However, the kind of D I'm pushing is what Dave Aranda runs at Wisconsin. He is sort of a protege of Capers, but probably more extreme in the emphasis on LBs and the de-emphasis on D Linemen.

Sure, one way to run a 3-4 is with a lot of bulk in the line. A lot of teams do it differently though. I remember when Jay Ratliff was the Nose Tackle for the Cowboys - more mobile and athletic.

Raji has been dominant? Yeah, for a few plays in the first quarter of each game when he is busting his still oversize gut to over-achieve. I applaud him for that effort, but it hasn't continued throughout the game. Fortunately, Capers seems to recognize that and yank Raji for most of the snaps as the game moves along - that and the fact that once the Packers get a lead and teams are playing catch up, the more mobile packages are more useful.

I dread the thought of those immobile bigs in there against the 49ers and Kaepernick. He has become less and less effective as he has gotten away from running. However, his past success against the Packers may make him go back to what worked so well. And with basically 2 less than a full 11 who can make a play on our D, we are at a disadvantage. Maybe some of you guys see it differently, but I see having a couple of immobile space occupiers in there as basically playing 9 against 11.

BTW, I'm happy the great majority of the time because the Packers win the great majority of the time. Also BTW. don't they teach you to spell at The Ohio State?
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