Barfarn
9 years ago


Raji has been dominant? Yeah, for a few plays in the first quarter of each game when he is busting his still oversize gut to over-achieve.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You keep saying this...but it is WRONG!
texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

You keep saying this...but it is WRONG!

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



What games have you been watching hahahaha?


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
beast
9 years ago

You got that right about the schemes. I HATE the concept of D Linemen essentially being O Linemen to enable the LBs. That to me is playing D with 8 or 9 players capable of making a play.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



And that shows why you probably hate the concept... because you don't seem to understand it.

Your logic seems to be two group though process, are they chasing the play or not?
That logic fails because there are at least 3 groups (maybe more)... as there are single gap, double gap and free players.
You're saying that in single gap all 11 are capable of making plays, but that's not correct because they have gaps they have to be responsible for and aren't allowed to leave. Some guys playing double gap, free one or two of them to allow more to flow to action instead of watching gaps.

For every person you have on an offense front their is one more gap. So if you have an OL and TE there are 6 offense front guys with 7 gaps. With 7 defenders in the box...

~ If each of the 7 defenders in the box has a single gap to be responsible for (like you claim you want) then you have no free guys to chase the play out of their gap. So there is one guy in that gap. Which is fine, as long as there is no mistakes... but the problem is there are mistakes... or the other team beats one guy leaving a gap open and there is no free guys to fill in that gap.

~ If you ask someone to play two gaps (which you hate) it means a guy (normally a DT) has the responsible for two different gaps (that are next to each other) and that means you go from zero free guys to one free guy with doesn't have a gap to fill but has to follow and go after the ball, so now you possibility have two guys in the gap the RB is going to instead of one. And if the offense beats someone that is possibility a free gap to come fill that gap now.

I understand you probably still hate it... but considering NFL coaches probably know football a hell lot better than we do and that almost every single NFL teams runs some two gap action during the game they play... that shows it's probably a very good thing in moderation.


UserPostedImage
texaspackerbacker
9 years ago
You present a fine example of "static analysis", beast. But then the ball is snapped and all hell breaks loose - basically every play in a football game. You need "dynamic analysis". The big bulky D Linemen you like fill two gaps - fine. On a straight ahead play that probably is effective, although even then, a great man once coined the phrase, "run to daylight". More often than not, though, you have a trap play or linemen pulling on a sweep or a read option or whatever, and your big immobile types are spectators or if they are hustling, trying to chase down people a whole lot faster than they are. And that isn't even getting to pass plays where for the most part, the kind of D Linemen you like are liabilities.

I ask you what I asked Buckeye, have you seen the Dave Aranda D for the Badgers? Rarely, in short yardage situations, they sub in a big ugly or two, but for the most part, they put a smaller guy on the nose. It is an extreme mobility oriented D, and it works pretty well. Sure, it's college, but I think the concept would do well in the NFL too. Basically, it's what Capers is trending to more and more - probably in part because we get ahead and other teams play catch up.

I'd MUCH rather have that kind of D trying to defense Kaepernick instead of having several players out there that are just hopeless in terms of speed and athleticism.

Yeah, NFL coaches know a helluva lot more than we do, and college coaches too - and Capers is near the top of that list - which is undoubtedly why we will see mobility on our D stop Kaepernick - successfully I hope, and Raji and Guion mostly on the bench.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
beast
9 years ago

You present a fine example of "static analysis", beast. But then the ball is snapped and all hell breaks loose - basically every play in a football game. You need "dynamic analysis".

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



No I gave both... and talked about when hell breaks loose... when you're playing straight up you don't have that extra free guy to hopefully cover up a mistake, which with the two gap you do and it's the reason almost all NFL schemes have a NT that plays two gap at times.

I ask you what I asked Buckeye, have you seen the Dave Aranda D for the Badgers? Rarely, in short yardage situations, they sub in a big ugly or two, but for the most part, they put a smaller guy on the nose.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Since when is Domata Peko a "smaller guy"? He's just as much of a fatty NT just like all the other 4-3 NTs... the dude is pretty big and has been starting at NT for the Bengals since 2007 and he plays two gap when they're not in passing down just the Packers NT has.

They just run an aggressive attacking 4-3 defense with one of the best penetrating DT in the NFL in Geno Atkins which is what I'm sure you love. But teams mostly play in nickel defense these days and both teams use an aggressive attacking 4-2 as their nickel defense.


I'd MUCH rather have that kind of D trying to defense Kaepernick instead of having several players out there that are just hopeless in terms of speed and athleticism.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



That's because that's all you seem to see... is speed and athleticism... you don't seem to see the trench action unless it's on the outside with an OLB going around an OT.

NFL coaches have DTs on the field for a reason weather you understand it or not.

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Bigbyfan
9 years ago
Besides the first play of the game where Raji got put on his ass, he was a force yet again. One of the big reasons our run defense has improved. He even chased down a screen, limiting it to around a two yard gain.
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RainX
9 years ago
To me this is by far the best defensive line group we've had since Cullen Jenkins was a Packer. A group of guys that is capable of both staying in and collapsing running lanes as well as getting to the QB. You finally have a motivated BJ Raji showing up for the first time in 5 years, Daniels in a contract year, and arguably our best run stuffing DE back after a three game suspension for being an off the field nimrod. Even Pennell and Jones have stepped up an made plays.

Howard Green came in at the right time during that Super Bowl run because we badly needed his interior defense because of the injuries we had, but he was a journeymen who didn't last in the league past 2011 with us because of his conditioning and work ethic and why he bounced around so much. Grady Jackson was a similar style interior linemen. He had a lot of similarities to Green in size and why he bounced around the league so much even if he was an immediate help shoring up our interior line after coming in off waivers. Ryan Pickett was also a big guy, but he had much better conditioning and work ethic and did well in both the 4-3 and 3-4 defenses we've run and why he stuck around in GB as long as he did.
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TheKanataThrilla
9 years ago
Great post RainX. I am curious as to what Ted's plans are for re-signing the DL. It has definitely surpassed my expectations. Strange to have so many guys in a unit on a contract year.
Bigbyfan
9 years ago
Still looking forward to Texas' analysis this week on Raji and Guion lol
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Zero2Cool (2m) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (14m) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23m) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (43m) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (52m) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (1h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (1h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (1h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (1h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (2h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (3h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (3h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (4h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (4h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (4h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (4h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (4h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (4h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (4h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (4h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (4h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (4h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (4h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (4h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (4h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (4h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (4h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (4h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (5h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (5h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (5h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (5h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (5h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (5h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (5h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (5h) : Packers will get in
beast (5h) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen
packerfanoutwest (5h) : they still are in the playoffs
packerfanoutwest (5h) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7
Zero2Cool (7h) : We can say it. We don't play.
Mucky Tundra (8h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (8h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (8h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (9h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (18h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (18h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (18h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (22h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
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