steveishere
9 years ago
Texas why are you acting like Guion is some slow tub of lard? He's more of athletic type with some length. You act like him and Raji are one in the same but they really aren't that similar at all. The guy was a decent enough pass rusher last year and was more of a playmaker than fans gave him credit for. I'm not expecting him to do much this week coming off a suspension but he's going to be a useful player to have on the field during this season.
Tezzy
9 years ago
I get a major clue when we get more quality depth in the middle of our front seven, which will allow Matthews to be even more productive from the inside.
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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

Texas why are you acting like Guion is some slow tub of lard? He's more of athletic type with some length. You act like him and Raji are one in the same but they really aren't that similar at all. The guy was a decent enough pass rusher last year and was more of a playmaker than fans gave him credit for. I'm not expecting him to do much this week coming off a suspension but he's going to be a useful player to have on the field during this season.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I hope you're right, because they seem committed to playing him. I see Guion as a hustle guy with limited talent and athleticism. That's not all bad, but I don't like the whole concept of linemen mainly there to occupy space. It's way too easy to run around them, and in a lot of cases (Raji), they are not all that hard for O Lines to push around anyway. Yeah, I know, Raji has been better this year, but he has to give 110% just to be average, and that doesn't seem to last past the first quarter. Maybe the plan is to let him burn himself out, then sub in Guion and let him do the same. That would take us to halftime anyway hahahaha.


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beast
9 years ago

I see Guion as a ... guy with limited talent and athleticism.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 


Isn't that how you see every linemen?

Seems like you'd prefer watching football with no linemen at all...

Texas why are you acting like Guion is some slow tub of lard?

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



My guess is because he's a linemen... asTexas seems to think that about most linemen.


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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

Isn't that how you see every linemen?

Seems like you'd prefer watching football with no linemen at all...



My guess is because he's a linemen... asTexas seems to think that about most linemen.

Originally Posted by: beast 



I like Mike Daniels. I liked Henry Jordan and Reggie White and Howard Green and that other huge guy I can't think of the name of. Mobility is great; Strength is great. D Lineman with too little of both is what I don't care for.

In many situations, I have to say, that 2 man D Line thing, or even 0 or 1 guy down in a lineman's stance, as I saw several times last game, I prefer that along with more LBs and DBs.

How many D Linemen who have zero chance to catch Alex Smith much less Kaepernick would YOU like to see on the field for the Packers?
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beast
9 years ago

I like Mike Daniels. I liked Henry Jordan and Reggie White and Howard Green and that other huge guy I can't think of the name of.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



You like Howard Green but dislike Raji and Guion? ... how is Green different than those two? He's less athletic and disappeared faster... that's about it.

In many situations, I have to say, that 2 man D Line thing, or even 0 or 1 guy down in a lineman's stance, as I saw several times last game, I prefer that along with more LBs and DBs.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Honestly I think you just don't get the trenches part of football and all you want is speed... those big guys have to cover more than one gap which frees up the speed guys. It's not the players you dislike it's the schemes...

You'd love schemes that were almost completely one gap penetration styles like Tampa 2 and Cover 2 but hate all the two gaps schemes which is almost all of the 3-4 packages.

The Packers 2-4 nickel package is simply a 4-2 nickel with the OLBers acting as DEs.


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Mucky Tundra
9 years ago

I would have been fine with just cutting Guion or possibly having him replace Raji. We really don't need to get away from mobility to get more blubber in the line. The key to stopping the run is Matthews at ILB regardless of who is in the D Line.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



[TWITTER]534422208039620610?ref_src=twsrc^tfw[/TWITTER]

Seems to be mobile enough to me
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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

You like Howard Green but dislike Raji and Guion? ... how is Green different than those two? He's less athletic and disappeared faster... that's about it.



Honestly I think you just don't get the trenches part of football and all you want is speed... those big guys have to cover more than one gap which frees up the speed guys. It's not the players you dislike it's the schemes...

You'd love schemes that were almost completely one gap penetration styles like Tampa 2 and Cover 2 but hate all the two gaps schemes which is almost all of the 3-4 packages.

The Packers 2-4 nickel package is simply a 4-2 nickel with the OLBers acting as DEs.

Originally Posted by: beast 



I PLAYED in the trenches back in the day, and I was an unathletic try-hard kind of guy. Hence, I recognize the value of more mobile and athletic players.

As for Howard Green, my recollection of him was strength, Vince Wilfork-like - standing there like a wall/pushing the pile instead of getting pushed around like Raji and to a lesser extent, Guion (and yeah, Mucky, Guion looked kinda athletic on that one play, but it seems pretty exceptional - better him than Raji, but less than almost anybody else you could play).

You got that right about the schemes. I HATE the concept of D Linemen essentially being O Linemen to enable the LBs. That to me is playing D with 8 or 9 players capable of making a play.

Your 2-4 package thing is also spot on - exactly my point - more mobile and athletic personnel. Play them on the line, fine. Just don't use the fat boys - as the Packers generally don't in a lot of situations. When you had those 2 OLBs acting as DEs, did you notice who the two DTs were? Not Raji, etc. - I think I saw Datone Jones and Peppers inside several times. That wouldn't work as an every down thing, obviously, but it does illustrate the point about athleticism and mobility over largeness.


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buckeyepackfan
9 years ago
Texas

You are never going to be happy

The whole concept of the 3-4 is for the "big fatties" as you call them to take on the "big fatties" across from them to free up the 4 lbr's to make plays.

Just as a team can't put 5 wr's on the field every play and expect it to work, the D can't run, as The Packers call it a "pshyco package" every down and not expect to get ran all over.

Raji has been dominating so far, Guion is going to be added to the rotation and will make the d-line that much stronger.

The Packers 53 is finally taking shape.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
texaspackerbacker
9 years ago

Texas

You are never going to be happy

The whole concept of the 3-4 is for the "big fatties" as you call them to take on the "big fatties" across from them to free up the 4 lbr's to make plays.

Just as a team can't put 5 wr's on the field every play and expect it to work, the D can't run, as The Packers call it a "pshyco package" every down and not expect to get ran all over.

Raji has been dominating so far, Guion is going to be added to the rotation and will make the d-line that much stronger.

The Packers 53 is finally taking shape.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



I guess based on your screen name, you don't follow the Badgers. However, the kind of D I'm pushing is what Dave Aranda runs at Wisconsin. He is sort of a protege of Capers, but probably more extreme in the emphasis on LBs and the de-emphasis on D Linemen.

Sure, one way to run a 3-4 is with a lot of bulk in the line. A lot of teams do it differently though. I remember when Jay Ratliff was the Nose Tackle for the Cowboys - more mobile and athletic.

Raji has been dominant? Yeah, for a few plays in the first quarter of each game when he is busting his still oversize gut to over-achieve. I applaud him for that effort, but it hasn't continued throughout the game. Fortunately, Capers seems to recognize that and yank Raji for most of the snaps as the game moves along - that and the fact that once the Packers get a lead and teams are playing catch up, the more mobile packages are more useful.

I dread the thought of those immobile bigs in there against the 49ers and Kaepernick. He has become less and less effective as he has gotten away from running. However, his past success against the Packers may make him go back to what worked so well. And with basically 2 less than a full 11 who can make a play on our D, we are at a disadvantage. Maybe some of you guys see it differently, but I see having a couple of immobile space occupiers in there as basically playing 9 against 11.

BTW, I'm happy the great majority of the time because the Packers win the great majority of the time. Also BTW. don't they teach you to spell at The Ohio State?
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Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (1h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (3h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (13h) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (13h) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (13h) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (13h) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (17h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (17h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (17h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (19h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (19h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (19h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (19h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (19h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (19h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (19h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (19h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (20h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (21h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (21h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (21h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (21h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (21h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (22h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (22h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (22h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
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