Porforis
12 years ago

I just don't get it.....the "poor teachers".
That's all i ever hear. The constant crying and hand wringing.
And if you DARE to say something like i just said, then they say "You're attacking the CHILDREN!!!"
After all, it's ALL for the CHILDREN.
Even though the teachers wouldn't take a 2% pay cut that would have allowed smaller class sizes and more teahcers could be hired.
They hide behind "the children"....when it suits them.
People that want to be teachers are like any other profession. You know what you are getting into before you make that career choice.
I had many good teachers when i was in school....also had some that were litterally WORTHLESS. But the had "tenure" and couldn't be fired, no matter how bad they were.
I knew a man who was a great teacher. He had every summer off, had a great pay and benefits. He knew he had a great deal, and admitted it.
They way most public workers make it sound, they are getting slave wages.
And it all boils down to, they don't want the "gravy train" to not only to not stop, but not even to slow down.
Oh....and "the people" have spoken. Scott Walker won.....again. I guess the majority of Wisconsinites couldn't be bamboozled.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



This is partially out of curiosity/ignorance and partially to be the devil's advocate, but have teachers been getting raises the last several years?

If so, I don't think a 2% pay cut is unreasonable considering the circumstances, and it's exactly what would happen in the private sector. However, if there's been a pay freeze inplace over the last 4 years or so, I still think that some measures needed to be taken to balance the budget (This, to a lesser extent would be one thing) but it's not unreasonable to get pissed off when you don't get a raise for 4 years then they ask to take money away from you.
Cheesey
12 years ago
Teachers in the "private sector" don't get NEARLY as much money, let alone benefits as public school teachers.
Look at it this way.......the teachers are already getting a very sweet deal. So even if they didn't get a pay raise, they still would be making alot more then teachers in private schools.

What i'm saying is, what Walker has been trying to do. Make public workers pay at least a little more towards their benefits, and get their wages down to a more resonable level, more in line with the public sector.

Of COURSE i expect the public workers to throw a hissy fit when they are asked to give up ANYTHING. That's just what happened. But the overall Wisconsin people know this, and still voted to keep a guy in office that won't sellt he future of Wisconsin tax payers down the river just to make the unions happy.

I bet if you took away the votes of Madison and Milwaukee, it would have been a landslide win by Walker.
The liberal "Walker is attacking the little guy!" rant fools too many people that don't really know what's going on.
It's "class envy" that works for them. They say Walker is for the rich, while Barrett is for the poor.
Yet the guys screaming these rants are also VERY rich people. They forget to metion that though.

The recall is over. Millions of tax dollars that could have gone for good, have been wasted.
Who paid for it? Yup....us tax payers.
Hopefully this will stop this kind of thing from happening again. Recalls should be for things like, say, breaking the law. Maybe running off to Illinois when you don't want to do your job you were voted into office to do.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
12 years ago
Just as the recall itself, the continuation of the party war isn't going to help us pull out of the mess we are in.

Basically, it is what it is, like most elections a giant waste of tax payer money and honestly a ton of campaign funds that could be used a lot more effectively.

TV, Radio and print has a boost to their local revenues.. other than that.. it was a waste.


Hopefully the citizens of this state can move forward and try to improve.. rather than continue the last countless months fighting over issues rather than trying to collectively solve them.

 Dead Horse recall.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dhpackr
12 years ago
If Walker is going to cut the pay and benefits of Wisconsin teachers, raise the cost of tuition to become a teacher, take away your rights to bargain a fair contract which determines benefits and pay, cause class size to increase, then why exactly would any bright young student who is about to go at least 30,000 dollars in debt to pay for their education choose to be a teacher?

The answer is quite simple, they are not. I think teachers in public education are just as important as police and firefighters. To be a teacher in public education it is almost mandatory to have an graduate degree. If it requires that kind of investment, that should be compensated for, or the education that is required to obtain an teaching position should be free.


So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
12 years ago

If Walker is going to cut the pay and benefits of Wisconsin teachers, raise the cost of tuition to become a teacher, take away your rights to bargain a fair contract which determines benefits and pay, cause class size to increase, then why exactly would any bright young student who is about to go at least 30,000 dollars in debt to pay for their education choose to be a teacher?

The answer is quite simple, they are not. I think teachers in public education are just as important as police and firefighters. To be a teacher in public education it is almost mandatory to have an graduate degree. If it requires that kind of investment, that should be compensated for, or the education that is required to obtain an teaching position should be free.

Originally Posted by: dhpackr 



I can't speak for the situation in WI but I was at my daughter's graduation dinner last Friday. The other grad who was at our table told me that she had originally wanted to be an elementary ed teacher and as a freshman was told that there was such a glut of teachers for all levels that most of them would never find employment in that field.

Perhaps that was merely the ploy to thin the herd. Perhaps there is some truth in that statement. Over the years I know that I have talked to hundreds maybe thousands of young women who wanted to work with/teach children when they graduated.

Perhaps this is Walker's way of culling the herd. let's get the people out of education that are they marking time until retirement. Let's have those who have a real passion for the job be the ones who are teaching our young.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
12 years ago
It's a math thing. There are less dollars coming in than going out, presently and in the future. The governor had the (major applause by me) stones to try and correct it, as best as is possible. I guess he decided to pay attention when he was taught arithmetic in 5th grade... I further speculate some were apparently way too busy with their friggin' philosophy studies during that instructional period to pay any attention to pluses and minuses and other boring crap like that.

My niece's husband just got his layoff notice in the mail today. He has been teaching 4th graders for about two years now. He is very smart, motivated and well-educated. The collective-bargaining between the school district and union prescribed the criteria for who stays and goes. It was entirely based on seniority- no consideration whatsoever was given for teaching ability, merit, education, etc.

Unions.

Awesome.
dhpackr
12 years ago
If there is not enough money coming in then maybe the United States government should think of making billionaires who forfeit their US citizenship just so they do not have to pay taxes still pay taxes even if they are not citizens and choose to have their corporate offices on foreign soil
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
dfosterf
12 years ago
If a corporation is not a U.S. corporation, them it's not a U.S. corporation. There are advantages to being a U.S. corporation, and disadvantages, (to the company in question). There are laws that dictate that U.S. corporations pay income tax on revenue derived from overseas sources.

You can't MAKE a company or individual retain citizenship to pay for your freight, except maybe in Russia or China.

I suspect some don't "get it". On the consumer end, so many want high quality merchandise, deride the origin of manufacturing, especially if it isn't the U.S. and want it at a cheap price, and they want all 3 simultaneously. This is also called being an ignorant American asshole. American manufacturers cannot give the ignorant American all 3, because the people making their products want a fair wage for their labors, in spite of the fact that they are absolutely no better (probably worse, but I editorialize here) at making the product than their (usually) dark-skinned contemporary in some other part of this world.

There is this bitch called competition. Competition in the information-age means better product at a better price. Better price means lower unit cost.

Over-simplified, but essentially true: Either build/skimp on cheap shit components or cheap shit labor. In a world economy, most manufacturers will go cheap - shit - labor before they skimp on components. You greedy cheap-skate-Americans will STILL force manufacturers to go cheap-shit-components ALSO, because you LIE about wanting "quality"-- You LIE with your wallet and what you actually BUY, and where it came from, regardless of your rhetoric/philosophy.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

If Walker is going to cut the pay and benefits of Wisconsin teachers, raise the cost of tuition to become a teacher, take away your rights to bargain a fair contract which determines benefits and pay, cause class size to increase, then why exactly would any bright young student who is about to go at least 30,000 dollars in debt to pay for their education choose to be a teacher?

The answer is quite simple, they are not. I think teachers in public education are just as important as police and firefighters. To be a teacher in public education it is almost mandatory to have an graduate degree. If it requires that kind of investment, that should be compensated for, or the education that is required to obtain an teaching position should be free.

Originally Posted by: dhpackr 



Why do you need a graduate degree to teach primary/secondary ed?




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

If a corporation is not a U.S. corporation, them it's not a U.S. corporation. There are advantages to being a U.S. corporation, and disadvantages, (to the company in question). There are laws that dictate that U.S. corporations pay income tax on revenue derived from overseas sources.

You can't MAKE a company or individual retain citizenship to pay for your freight, except maybe in Russia or China.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



You can't make them stay citizens, but you can make them serfs, as long as you can make the cost of physical travel costly enough.

Getting information across physical boundaries is virtually costless today thanks to the Internet, wireless connectivity, etc. And getting wealth across borders is also virtually costless.

Getting people across boundaries is pretty cheap -- but it's not trivial. And as long as it is not trivial, you can "make them pay".


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Fan Shout
beast (13h) : Technically, the I in FIB stands for Italian now, Si?
dfosterf (15h) : I never thought I'd live long enough to call a pope a FIB, but here we are
Martha Careful (17h) : Chicago produces a pope before it produces a 4000 yard passing quarterback
wpr (18h) : HAHAHA Mucky Comment of the day.
Mucky Tundra (18h) : According to reports, Mel Kiper is furious that Sanders wasn't selected as the new Pope
Zero2Cool (20h) : Time taken to get picked:
Zero2Cool (20h) : New Pope: 2 days | Shedeur Sanders: 3 days
Zero2Cool (20h) : Collin Whitchurch @cowhitchurch · 1h Chicago got a pope before it got a QB to throw for 4,000 yards in a season.
Mucky Tundra (21h) : New Pope from Chicago; in other words, the city produced a Pope before a 4000 yard passer
beast (7-May) : My first name starts with R and my beer belly is quite voluptuous! Thank you for noticing 😏
Zero2Cool (7-May) : beast, you're just one R from being voluptuous.
Zero2Cool (7-May) : And now some Packers blogger is like Doubs to Steelers makes sense!!!!
Zero2Cool (7-May) : You saw me Tweet???
beast (7-May) : Supposedly Steelers will be trading WR George Pickens to the Cowboys for a 3rd and late round pick swap
Zero2Cool (5-May) : Ravens release Justin Tucker, err D. Watson Jr?
Zero2Cool (5-May) : Cardinals have signed TE Josiah Deguara.
Zero2Cool (5-May) : If I were to "Google" it, then I wouldn't read it in your words.
Martha Careful (5-May) : Yes, in the military S2’s work on IPB, PERCEC, PHYSEC and IO
dfosterf (4-May) : FYI civilian companies swipe the S2 designation from the military. S2 is the intelligence branch up to brigade level. G2 is division level.
dfosterf (4-May) : Google it. Make sure to tack NFL on it or you will get the military meaning
Zero2Cool (4-May) : S2?
beast (4-May) : Seems like the S2 has a love/hate relationship with professional scouts.
beast (4-May) : In theory, the S2 test how quickly a QBs brain can solve game like issues and how quickly they can do it.
dfosterf (4-May) : Are you gentlemen and at least one lady familiar with the S2 cognition
Zero2Cool (4-May) : Maybe there isn't an issue.
beast (4-May) : NFL really needs to fix their position labeling issue, but I don't think they care
Zero2Cool (1-May) : Packers did not activate the fifth-year options for linebacker Quay Walker, with the goal of signing him to a contract extension.
Zero2Cool (1-May) : Matthew Golden spoke with Randall Cobb before draft. Looked like chance encounter.
packerfanoutwest (1-May) : from a head left turn?
packerfanoutwest (1-May) : someone drunk?
Zero2Cool (1-May) : Unlikely.
dfosterf (30-Apr) : How long until Jeff Sperbeck's family sues John Elway ?
Zero2Cool (30-Apr) : Packers are exercising the fifth-year option on DT Devonte Wyatt, locking in a guaranteed $12.9M for the 2026 season.
beast (30-Apr) : Sounds like P Luke Elzinga has a rookie try out opportunity from the Titans
dfosterf (30-Apr) : Luke Elzinga Punter Oklahoma stil unsigned. Green Bay has been mentioned as good fit
beast (30-Apr) : The Packers re-signed three exclusive rights free agents WR Melton, P Whelan and RB Wilson.
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : February 5, 2002 (age 23) ok no. packers.com is wrong
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : Micah Robinson is only 19??
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : 6 first rounders on Packers defense now
Zero2Cool (29-Apr) : LB Isaiah Simmons. Signed. Called it!!! Oh yeah!
Martha Careful (29-Apr) : ty bboystyle...fat fingers
bboystyle (29-Apr) : Tom*
Martha Careful (28-Apr) : RIP Packer Safety Tim Brown
beast (27-Apr) : Yeah, but also some of the wording suggestions Jax only pranked called the QB, not the others... and if he had an open spreadsheet & 3 calls
beast (27-Apr) : Thank goodness he's not leaving the Turtle in the Red Tide
Mucky Tundra (27-Apr) : Cowboys 1st round pick Tyler Booker will indeed be bringing his pet turtle to Dallas with him
Mucky Tundra (27-Apr) : that contained all prospects info and contact
Mucky Tundra (27-Apr) : beast, according the Falcons statement Jax came across it on an ipad. If I had to guess, probably an open spread sheet or something
Zero2Cool (27-Apr) : Simmons put up an emoji with cheese.
beast (27-Apr) : Not sure anyone is interested in Isaiah Simmons... Collin Oliver might of taken his potential slot
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

19h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

21h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

6-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

6-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

6-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

6-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

6-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

5-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

3-May / Packers Draft Threads / Martha Careful

3-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.