Porforis
12 years ago

I just don't get it.....the "poor teachers".
That's all i ever hear. The constant crying and hand wringing.
And if you DARE to say something like i just said, then they say "You're attacking the CHILDREN!!!"
After all, it's ALL for the CHILDREN.
Even though the teachers wouldn't take a 2% pay cut that would have allowed smaller class sizes and more teahcers could be hired.
They hide behind "the children"....when it suits them.
People that want to be teachers are like any other profession. You know what you are getting into before you make that career choice.
I had many good teachers when i was in school....also had some that were litterally WORTHLESS. But the had "tenure" and couldn't be fired, no matter how bad they were.
I knew a man who was a great teacher. He had every summer off, had a great pay and benefits. He knew he had a great deal, and admitted it.
They way most public workers make it sound, they are getting slave wages.
And it all boils down to, they don't want the "gravy train" to not only to not stop, but not even to slow down.
Oh....and "the people" have spoken. Scott Walker won.....again. I guess the majority of Wisconsinites couldn't be bamboozled.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



This is partially out of curiosity/ignorance and partially to be the devil's advocate, but have teachers been getting raises the last several years?

If so, I don't think a 2% pay cut is unreasonable considering the circumstances, and it's exactly what would happen in the private sector. However, if there's been a pay freeze inplace over the last 4 years or so, I still think that some measures needed to be taken to balance the budget (This, to a lesser extent would be one thing) but it's not unreasonable to get pissed off when you don't get a raise for 4 years then they ask to take money away from you.
Cheesey
12 years ago
Teachers in the "private sector" don't get NEARLY as much money, let alone benefits as public school teachers.
Look at it this way.......the teachers are already getting a very sweet deal. So even if they didn't get a pay raise, they still would be making alot more then teachers in private schools.

What i'm saying is, what Walker has been trying to do. Make public workers pay at least a little more towards their benefits, and get their wages down to a more resonable level, more in line with the public sector.

Of COURSE i expect the public workers to throw a hissy fit when they are asked to give up ANYTHING. That's just what happened. But the overall Wisconsin people know this, and still voted to keep a guy in office that won't sellt he future of Wisconsin tax payers down the river just to make the unions happy.

I bet if you took away the votes of Madison and Milwaukee, it would have been a landslide win by Walker.
The liberal "Walker is attacking the little guy!" rant fools too many people that don't really know what's going on.
It's "class envy" that works for them. They say Walker is for the rich, while Barrett is for the poor.
Yet the guys screaming these rants are also VERY rich people. They forget to metion that though.

The recall is over. Millions of tax dollars that could have gone for good, have been wasted.
Who paid for it? Yup....us tax payers.
Hopefully this will stop this kind of thing from happening again. Recalls should be for things like, say, breaking the law. Maybe running off to Illinois when you don't want to do your job you were voted into office to do.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
12 years ago
Just as the recall itself, the continuation of the party war isn't going to help us pull out of the mess we are in.

Basically, it is what it is, like most elections a giant waste of tax payer money and honestly a ton of campaign funds that could be used a lot more effectively.

TV, Radio and print has a boost to their local revenues.. other than that.. it was a waste.


Hopefully the citizens of this state can move forward and try to improve.. rather than continue the last countless months fighting over issues rather than trying to collectively solve them.

 Dead Horse recall.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
dhpackr
12 years ago
If Walker is going to cut the pay and benefits of Wisconsin teachers, raise the cost of tuition to become a teacher, take away your rights to bargain a fair contract which determines benefits and pay, cause class size to increase, then why exactly would any bright young student who is about to go at least 30,000 dollars in debt to pay for their education choose to be a teacher?

The answer is quite simple, they are not. I think teachers in public education are just as important as police and firefighters. To be a teacher in public education it is almost mandatory to have an graduate degree. If it requires that kind of investment, that should be compensated for, or the education that is required to obtain an teaching position should be free.


So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
12 years ago

If Walker is going to cut the pay and benefits of Wisconsin teachers, raise the cost of tuition to become a teacher, take away your rights to bargain a fair contract which determines benefits and pay, cause class size to increase, then why exactly would any bright young student who is about to go at least 30,000 dollars in debt to pay for their education choose to be a teacher?

The answer is quite simple, they are not. I think teachers in public education are just as important as police and firefighters. To be a teacher in public education it is almost mandatory to have an graduate degree. If it requires that kind of investment, that should be compensated for, or the education that is required to obtain an teaching position should be free.

Originally Posted by: dhpackr 



I can't speak for the situation in WI but I was at my daughter's graduation dinner last Friday. The other grad who was at our table told me that she had originally wanted to be an elementary ed teacher and as a freshman was told that there was such a glut of teachers for all levels that most of them would never find employment in that field.

Perhaps that was merely the ploy to thin the herd. Perhaps there is some truth in that statement. Over the years I know that I have talked to hundreds maybe thousands of young women who wanted to work with/teach children when they graduated.

Perhaps this is Walker's way of culling the herd. let's get the people out of education that are they marking time until retirement. Let's have those who have a real passion for the job be the ones who are teaching our young.
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
12 years ago
It's a math thing. There are less dollars coming in than going out, presently and in the future. The governor had the (major applause by me) stones to try and correct it, as best as is possible. I guess he decided to pay attention when he was taught arithmetic in 5th grade... I further speculate some were apparently way too busy with their friggin' philosophy studies during that instructional period to pay any attention to pluses and minuses and other boring crap like that.

My niece's husband just got his layoff notice in the mail today. He has been teaching 4th graders for about two years now. He is very smart, motivated and well-educated. The collective-bargaining between the school district and union prescribed the criteria for who stays and goes. It was entirely based on seniority- no consideration whatsoever was given for teaching ability, merit, education, etc.

Unions.

Awesome.
dhpackr
12 years ago
If there is not enough money coming in then maybe the United States government should think of making billionaires who forfeit their US citizenship just so they do not have to pay taxes still pay taxes even if they are not citizens and choose to have their corporate offices on foreign soil
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
dfosterf
12 years ago
If a corporation is not a U.S. corporation, them it's not a U.S. corporation. There are advantages to being a U.S. corporation, and disadvantages, (to the company in question). There are laws that dictate that U.S. corporations pay income tax on revenue derived from overseas sources.

You can't MAKE a company or individual retain citizenship to pay for your freight, except maybe in Russia or China.

I suspect some don't "get it". On the consumer end, so many want high quality merchandise, deride the origin of manufacturing, especially if it isn't the U.S. and want it at a cheap price, and they want all 3 simultaneously. This is also called being an ignorant American asshole. American manufacturers cannot give the ignorant American all 3, because the people making their products want a fair wage for their labors, in spite of the fact that they are absolutely no better (probably worse, but I editorialize here) at making the product than their (usually) dark-skinned contemporary in some other part of this world.

There is this bitch called competition. Competition in the information-age means better product at a better price. Better price means lower unit cost.

Over-simplified, but essentially true: Either build/skimp on cheap shit components or cheap shit labor. In a world economy, most manufacturers will go cheap - shit - labor before they skimp on components. You greedy cheap-skate-Americans will STILL force manufacturers to go cheap-shit-components ALSO, because you LIE about wanting "quality"-- You LIE with your wallet and what you actually BUY, and where it came from, regardless of your rhetoric/philosophy.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

If Walker is going to cut the pay and benefits of Wisconsin teachers, raise the cost of tuition to become a teacher, take away your rights to bargain a fair contract which determines benefits and pay, cause class size to increase, then why exactly would any bright young student who is about to go at least 30,000 dollars in debt to pay for their education choose to be a teacher?

The answer is quite simple, they are not. I think teachers in public education are just as important as police and firefighters. To be a teacher in public education it is almost mandatory to have an graduate degree. If it requires that kind of investment, that should be compensated for, or the education that is required to obtain an teaching position should be free.

Originally Posted by: dhpackr 



Why do you need a graduate degree to teach primary/secondary ed?




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

If a corporation is not a U.S. corporation, them it's not a U.S. corporation. There are advantages to being a U.S. corporation, and disadvantages, (to the company in question). There are laws that dictate that U.S. corporations pay income tax on revenue derived from overseas sources.

You can't MAKE a company or individual retain citizenship to pay for your freight, except maybe in Russia or China.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



You can't make them stay citizens, but you can make them serfs, as long as you can make the cost of physical travel costly enough.

Getting information across physical boundaries is virtually costless today thanks to the Internet, wireless connectivity, etc. And getting wealth across borders is also virtually costless.

Getting people across boundaries is pretty cheap -- but it's not trivial. And as long as it is not trivial, you can "make them pay".


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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