I may be alone on this, but a big part of what made PackersHome different than every other Packers board was that we could and did talk in useful and thoughtful ways about a lot of stuff other than the Packers. We could even talk in useful and thoughtful ways about two topics that most boards try to avoid, even squelch from discussion, namely politics and religion. And so we were a real community, not just a group of people sharing one common interest.

Packershome was a place, unlike so much of the world, where people didn't have to result to either empty platitudes OR "all opinions are equally valid" to tolerate our differences. Most of us never met in a common physical location, but we were more healthy as a community than most of the locations in which each of us physically live. I truly believe this.

If Packershome becomes just a place to talk about the Packers, that's okay. I'll still come here from time to time because I'm still interested in the Packers. But the older I get, the more important places of community are and the less important it is for me to spend time with any one interest, hobby, obsession, or activity. I'll come to PH when I want to talk and read about the Packers, because it is the best place I know online or otherwise to do so.

But I won't be interested in spending anything approaching the amount of time I now spend wandering its streets/pages, much less the amount of time I used to spend. Because I have far less time left than I've already spent, and I want to spend as much of what time I have in places of community rather than in places that feed a single interest.

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Your message isn't the problem, it is your delivery. You come off in a manner that forces those reading to be defensive and insulted. If you delivered your message in a way that wasn't labeling, generalizing or insulting those reading or less informed, you would be viewed vastly different. You can do that while still maintaining precious "asshole" moniker too by the way. 😁

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Incredibly spot on post, Wade! Spot. ON!!



PACKERSHOME is always going to be one that allows diversified topics and opinions. That will never change. However, those who cannot appreciate that freedom will be removed to preserve one of values that PACKERSHOME was founded upon.

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Not with these guys ANYMORE. I refuse to discuss present day problems with people who don't look at minorities, immigrants, and gays as equal human beings. Fuck em and the white privilege their spoiled with.

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It is mind boggling that some can looked down upon just for their sexual preference to which makes them HAPPIER and even worse for something such as skin color that no one has control over.

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Troy thinks he knows all, and sees all.
It still amazes me how he keeps saying that WE judge everyone, yet HE is the judge and jury in every post he mskes.
He never listens to anything anyone says who disagrees with ANYTHING he says.

He's a racist and a bully.
He can't even make a valid point on anything.
If you took out his insults, cursing and self righteous liberal speeches, he would have about 10 total posts on this site.
I have liberal friends, and we can talk and disagree without talking with no class like Troy does.
It shows what little class he has.
You can't learn anything with a closed mind.
He's a liberal tape recorder. He just regurgitates what his dictator leaders tell him to say, without giving any thought to it.

It's a shame too, as I think he could be and talk intelligent if he actually used his God given brain.
But it's easier to name call us and think he's SOOOOI much better then us.
That's what real racists do. Think they are above anyone else.
I have tried to have decent conversations with him, and have been belittled, cursed at, and name called at every turn.
I have lost all respect for him.
Not that he would care.

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Alan, I really don't think this was necessary. I believe you and Troy need to stop socializing with one another, period. This message here wasn't in any shape or form aimed at mending fences, but rather throwing bombs.

We know Troy doesn't agree with you. We know you don't agree with Troy. You both need to quit the indirect and direct verbal lashings. I was hoping the MODERATION team would step in, but maybe here this from a fellow MEMBER of the site will carry some weight with BOTH of you.

Enough already. Focus on the real dick here, Colin Kaepernick and he isn't a dick because of his stance. I've just always felt he was a dick. :D

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Ooookay.

I'm white. Therefore I'm privileged. Therefore I'm spoiled. Therefore I don't look at minorities or immigrants or gays as equal human beings.

In one post, Troy, you make not one, not two, but five unsupported ad hominem attacks against me and my fellows among "these guys." (I am "white", after all.)

Attack #1: I'm privileged.
I will stipulate to this. Certainly, with all my education, income, I am privileged now. One for you.

Attack #2: I'm spoiled.
Okay, I'll stipulate to this one, too, though it has very little to do with my "privilege" and more to do with the fact that I was the "baby" of the family and ten years younger than my next youngest sibling. I'll even stipulate that as a spoiled kid I have made some horrendous personal decisions, some financial and some in my (rare) relationships with the opposite sex. Of course I've also admitted to each of these personal failings repeatedly over my years year.

Attack #3: I look at minorities differently. I categorically and absolutely deny this. I admit it -- I do find attractive white brunette women sexier than I find attractive black women. I also find them sexier than white blondes, white redheads, and all bald women. Is that racist or bigoted of me? Other than that, where's your evidence?

Attack #4: I look at immigrants differently. I categorically and absolutely deny this. I have in many places, here and elsewhere (i) bemoaned the lack of Spanish ability that precludes my getting to know some of my Hispanic neighbors better. Regularly and often very loudly, in classes I teach and in a whole host of different social/political contexts, I have spoken of the idiocy -- moral and economic, both -- of restrictions on immigration. (To my mind, there is only one valid reason for excluding an individual from living and working within the borders of these United States: if that person is carrying a serious contagious disease like tuberculosis or plague; and even they should be let in once they are no longer contagious.)

Attack #5: I look at gays differently. I categorically and absolutely deny this. Yes, I consider homosexuality a sin. I also consider lying a sin, and murder a sin, and lots of other stuff sins, too. I believe we *all* are sinners, and I believe our inherent sinfulness means none of us any hope of ever doing anything that allows us to escapes from an eternity in hell on our own. Without God's incredible graciousness, none of us deserves anything better than being worm food.

I do look at unrepentant gays differently. I look at anyone who is unrepentant in their sin differently. Not because they are inferior to me, but because I think they are playing with the fire of God's wrath (I know He hates intentional rebellion against Him, whoever it's by and which of His desires it is rebellious against), and I would rather no one has to suffer that wrath.

From what I see, the only evidence *you* have presented for any of these attacks is that I did not actively try to get Texas Ray booted from here and that I, shudder, actually tried to reason with him when I (often) disagreed with him instead of responding to his gross generalizations about people sharing particular characteristics of religion/race/ethnicity/sexual preference with my own gross generalizations about other people who shared other characteristics of religion/race/ethnicity/sexual preference with him.

Well, I'm sorry, but this particular white child of privilege was taught and raised to believe that gross generalization across large numbers of people was both empirically inaccurate and morally wrong. I don't always succeed, but this is one part of my parents' teachings that I always try to obey. I try very hard to treat everyone as an individual, and I always will.

Indeed, the older I get, the stronger becomes my belief that use of these group labels -- any use of these group labels, by any of us -- is just a bad idea, period. You want to define yourself as black or gay or white or fundie or as Baby Boomer or millenial or conservative or liberal, go for it. But me, I'm going to try to limit myself to considering the individual, the Troy or Wade or Alan or Colin, as their individual self and not as someone who has membership in a particular group.

I've even found myself noticing really interesting people who turn out to be, after I've got to know them a bit more, blonde women of all things.

If any of the above makes me sufficiently bigoted to be unworthy of anything but ad hominem comments from Troy or any of the rest of you individuals, so be it. Call me a bigot, assign me to one of your categories. Words that make ad hominem attacks on me are still just words.

They're neither sticks nor stones.

Back when they were privileging me, my parents turn out to have understood that difference correctly, too.

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Interesting that some veterans support kaepernick's stance .

I notice that many of the tweets in support of Kaepernick relate to his right to protest the national anthem and little to do with the discussion of racist police abuse though. I think that this is what Kaepernick was going for; a social media protest.

My problem with this is:
1. No dialogue is actually taking place. Twitter allows everyone to express their opinion with a hashtag that eliminates any need for the person to explain what the opinion actually is. My guess is that if you take 20 twitter protestors and ask what their specific issue is, you would get 20 different answers.
2. I think that Kaepernick's main point "That there is inherent racism in the police" is false. Even if it was true, Kaepernick's statements are devoid of the necessary critical thinking and facts to persuade skeptics.


For anyone that support's Kaepernick's viewpoint, my recommendation is to tell your friends and family to join the police force. It is the best way to change the current system. I believe more lives will be lost by these hastag protests due to a national reduction in the numbers and morale in the police force.

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yup, Kevin....,I'm the bad guy here.
Guess you have to be a jerk to get treated with any respect here.
I get the message.
Bullies win and you don't DARE stand up to them or you will be chastised.

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