DarkaneRules
9 years ago
Gosh, I just cannot say enough about this coaching staff and Aaron dealing with all the changes, especially as it relates to personnel. They've obviously worked real hard at developing an offense that allows all of our players to be in the best position to make a play every down. It's damn impressive. Our offensive line did a great job blocking one of the most talented fronts in the league two weeks in a row. They are the unsung heroes.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Zero2Cool
9 years ago
I could be mistaken on the distance as the point of it was Aaron Rodgers was completing short passes that have a high completion percentage, which is a smart thing to do.

I'm curious, so now I dig for facts. 🤤


Turns out Rodgers was 24 of 35 for the night and from behind the line of scrimmage to 9 yards, Rodgers was 19 of 24 and from 10 yards and further he was 5 of 11. And the Packers had only one dropped pass thanks to Davante Adams.

Let me rephrase that to make it more clear.

Aaron Rodgers threw 11 passes that traveled 10 or more yards and only 5 of them were completed. If this were any one else, we'd be jumping all over him calling him the CheckDownKing.
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DarkaneRules
9 years ago
Or we can call it the West Coast Offense.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
TheKanataThrilla
9 years ago

The ESPN folks showed a stat that Aaron Rodgers didn't complete a pass over 5 or 10 yards through I think three quarters or something. I read the article, it is not that hard to understand the negative grade. It's not the end of the world. I am finding it humorous how some are all "look ProFootballFocus is the dumb!" over this. If you for a second thing there is anything that is concrete in determining player worth, you're kind of naive. Because, if there was, then we wouldn't see draft picks being cut from teams ... ever.

PFF is good information. You can ignore it, you can take parts of it or you can go crazy and believe every single grade.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I just don't know how the short passes lessens the grade. He took what was given to him and the players made the right plays to gain a bunch of YAC. Why take the low percentage downfield play when you have guys who can guys who can make a move (like Cobb) and turn a 5 yard pass into 20?

Probably a case where in general the formula tells the right story and this in an anomoly.
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
9 years ago

PFF was right about the 3 TD's to Cobb. Didn't exactly require a pin point throw to a small window downfield. It was about like handing the ball to Lacy. Aaron Rodgers doesn't get credit for doing that, so...

PFF is a great source of information. But like test scores in school, they are not a perfect measure. Just 1 source. Criticizing PFF for imperfection is like whining about the Packers D in the 4th qtr.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



I love what PFF and the Outsiders are doing to give real meaning to traditional NFL stats...

BUT...

"imperfection" is not the word I'd use to describe a minus grade for that performance. It's a flaw in the grading system that should be fixed, not arrogantly and nonsensically defended. That is if they want to be taken seriously by the NFL.

Darkane says "stats are dumb"😂, I get that! But I think stats are like guns: stats are not dumb, people that use them dumbly are dumb. The entire purpose of stats is to reflect the reality of how good a player is. Some stats do, some stats dont, depending on the situation. Or in this case, if a stat is manufactured and it transmogrifies reality of how good a player is, then the stat is dumb.

That grade says 17 or so NFL coaches preferred the way their guy performed at QB over AR this week. But, the reality is all but a few would trade for AR's performance for that of their QB if they could, even if the fumble occurred, even if Maugua INT that pass. If AR's play was viewed as well above by EVERY NFL coach and talent evaluater, and PFF's grade shows it's below average; then the PFF stat is failing to account for important factors of play and/or it is giving inappropriate weight to those critical factors.

I agree to a degree what you said about Cobb; but like what PackFanWT said, those throws were pinpoint accurate and had pinpoint timing. They were relatively easy throws. But, if say Cutler, Bridgewater or Stafford makes those 3 throws, the timing or location would have been off a touch on 1 or more of the 3, then i bet Cobb doesn't score on all 3 plays.

YAC is 80-90% about the throw being in a perfect location at a perfect time based on the position of the D and 10-20% about the receiver avoiding or breaking tackles.

On short passes:
In the 1st half, Smith also threw alot of short passes, did those fail because our D is so much better than KC's? Do we have alot more receiving talent over Macklin, Kelce and Charles? IMHO, the difference is Smith's reading an execution was much much worse than AR's, even on the short passes. What was his PFF grade?????
nerdmann
9 years ago

Or we can call it the West Coast Offense.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



I was digging that high percentage shit in the chat room.


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
9 years ago

I could be mistaken on the distance as the point of it was Aaron Rodgers was completing short passes that have a high completion percentage, which is a smart thing to do.

I'm curious, so now I dig for facts. 🤤


Turns out Rodgers was 24 of 35 for the night and from behind the line of scrimmage to 9 yards, Rodgers was 19 of 24 and from 10 yards and further he was 5 of 11. And the Packers had only one dropped pass thanks to Davante Adams.

Let me rephrase that to make it more clear.

Aaron Rodgers threw 11 passes that traveled 10 or more yards and only 5 of them were completed. If this were any one else, we'd be jumping all over him calling him the CheckDownKing.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Expanding on this a little. I'm not trying to knock Rodgers for taking what the defense gives him. That's the smart thing to do when you're up against a helluva pass rush. It's like extended screens or draw plays. It keeps the defense honest.

Do I agree with the negative grade? No. I think amassing 5 touchdowns with no turnovers outweighs the short passes and the receivers piling up yards after catch. One thing about the YAC is if the QB doesn't lead the WR properly, there will not be any YAC to add. I think that fact is missing in the grading scheme for ProFootballFocus.

All in all though, if PFF is consistent with how they grade across the board, there is still value in the statistics. I'm not saying big value or small value, just value depending on how in depth you read into them and what you take from them.
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steveishere
9 years ago
why did Rodgers only get .1 score for penalties when he caused 3 big offsides penalties? I guess an offsides is worth .033 score lol
dyeah_gb
9 years ago
I am surprised there is no mention of that fact that it was raining for about 3 quarters. Higher percentage short plays is smarter play with a potential slippery ball.

I do admit though that the 3 TD passes to Cobb reminded me of an AI exploiting play in Madden.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
yooperfan
9 years ago

The ESPN folks showed a stat that Aaron Rodgers didn't complete a pass over 5 or 10 yards through I think three quarters or something. I read the article, it is not that hard to understand the negative grade. It's not the end of the world. I am finding it humorous how some are all "look ProFootballFocus is the dumb!" over this. If you for a second thing there is anything that is concrete in determining player worth, you're kind of naive. Because, if there was, then we wouldn't see draft picks being cut from teams ... ever.

PFF is good information. You can ignore it, you can take parts of it or you can go crazy and believe every single grade.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Thanks, I choose to ignore it.
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beast (22-Apr) : What is he supposed to say? He doesn't want players currently on the team?
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Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
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dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
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