DarkaneRules
9 years ago
Gosh, I just cannot say enough about this coaching staff and Aaron dealing with all the changes, especially as it relates to personnel. They've obviously worked real hard at developing an offense that allows all of our players to be in the best position to make a play every down. It's damn impressive. Our offensive line did a great job blocking one of the most talented fronts in the league two weeks in a row. They are the unsung heroes.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Zero2Cool
9 years ago
I could be mistaken on the distance as the point of it was Aaron Rodgers was completing short passes that have a high completion percentage, which is a smart thing to do.

I'm curious, so now I dig for facts. 🤤


Turns out Rodgers was 24 of 35 for the night and from behind the line of scrimmage to 9 yards, Rodgers was 19 of 24 and from 10 yards and further he was 5 of 11. And the Packers had only one dropped pass thanks to Davante Adams.

Let me rephrase that to make it more clear.

Aaron Rodgers threw 11 passes that traveled 10 or more yards and only 5 of them were completed. If this were any one else, we'd be jumping all over him calling him the CheckDownKing.
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DarkaneRules
9 years ago
Or we can call it the West Coast Offense.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
TheKanataThrilla
9 years ago

The ESPN folks showed a stat that Aaron Rodgers didn't complete a pass over 5 or 10 yards through I think three quarters or something. I read the article, it is not that hard to understand the negative grade. It's not the end of the world. I am finding it humorous how some are all "look ProFootballFocus is the dumb!" over this. If you for a second thing there is anything that is concrete in determining player worth, you're kind of naive. Because, if there was, then we wouldn't see draft picks being cut from teams ... ever.

PFF is good information. You can ignore it, you can take parts of it or you can go crazy and believe every single grade.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I just don't know how the short passes lessens the grade. He took what was given to him and the players made the right plays to gain a bunch of YAC. Why take the low percentage downfield play when you have guys who can guys who can make a move (like Cobb) and turn a 5 yard pass into 20?

Probably a case where in general the formula tells the right story and this in an anomoly.
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
9 years ago

PFF was right about the 3 TD's to Cobb. Didn't exactly require a pin point throw to a small window downfield. It was about like handing the ball to Lacy. Aaron Rodgers doesn't get credit for doing that, so...

PFF is a great source of information. But like test scores in school, they are not a perfect measure. Just 1 source. Criticizing PFF for imperfection is like whining about the Packers D in the 4th qtr.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



I love what PFF and the Outsiders are doing to give real meaning to traditional NFL stats...

BUT...

"imperfection" is not the word I'd use to describe a minus grade for that performance. It's a flaw in the grading system that should be fixed, not arrogantly and nonsensically defended. That is if they want to be taken seriously by the NFL.

Darkane says "stats are dumb"😂, I get that! But I think stats are like guns: stats are not dumb, people that use them dumbly are dumb. The entire purpose of stats is to reflect the reality of how good a player is. Some stats do, some stats dont, depending on the situation. Or in this case, if a stat is manufactured and it transmogrifies reality of how good a player is, then the stat is dumb.

That grade says 17 or so NFL coaches preferred the way their guy performed at QB over Aaron Rodgers this week. But, the reality is all but a few would trade for AR's performance for that of their QB if they could, even if the fumble occurred, even if Maugua INT that pass. If AR's play was viewed as well above by EVERY NFL coach and talent evaluater, and PFF's grade shows it's below average; then the PFF stat is failing to account for important factors of play and/or it is giving inappropriate weight to those critical factors.

I agree to a degree what you said about Cobb; but like what PackFanWT said, those throws were pinpoint accurate and had pinpoint timing. They were relatively easy throws. But, if say Cutler, Bridgewater or Stafford makes those 3 throws, the timing or location would have been off a touch on 1 or more of the 3, then i bet Cobb doesn't score on all 3 plays.

YAC is 80-90% about the throw being in a perfect location at a perfect time based on the position of the D and 10-20% about the receiver avoiding or breaking tackles.

On short passes:
In the 1st half, Smith also threw alot of short passes, did those fail because our D is so much better than KC's? Do we have alot more receiving talent over Macklin, Kelce and Charles? IMHO, the difference is Smith's reading an execution was much much worse than AR's, even on the short passes. What was his PFF grade?????
nerdmann
9 years ago

Or we can call it the West Coast Offense.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



I was digging that high percentage shit in the chat room.


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
9 years ago

I could be mistaken on the distance as the point of it was Aaron Rodgers was completing short passes that have a high completion percentage, which is a smart thing to do.

I'm curious, so now I dig for facts. 🤤


Turns out Rodgers was 24 of 35 for the night and from behind the line of scrimmage to 9 yards, Rodgers was 19 of 24 and from 10 yards and further he was 5 of 11. And the Packers had only one dropped pass thanks to Davante Adams.

Let me rephrase that to make it more clear.

Aaron Rodgers threw 11 passes that traveled 10 or more yards and only 5 of them were completed. If this were any one else, we'd be jumping all over him calling him the CheckDownKing.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Expanding on this a little. I'm not trying to knock Rodgers for taking what the defense gives him. That's the smart thing to do when you're up against a helluva pass rush. It's like extended screens or draw plays. It keeps the defense honest.

Do I agree with the negative grade? No. I think amassing 5 touchdowns with no turnovers outweighs the short passes and the receivers piling up yards after catch. One thing about the YAC is if the QB doesn't lead the WR properly, there will not be any YAC to add. I think that fact is missing in the grading scheme for ProFootballFocus.

All in all though, if PFF is consistent with how they grade across the board, there is still value in the statistics. I'm not saying big value or small value, just value depending on how in depth you read into them and what you take from them.
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steveishere
9 years ago
why did Rodgers only get .1 score for penalties when he caused 3 big offsides penalties? I guess an offsides is worth .033 score lol
dyeah_gb
9 years ago
I am surprised there is no mention of that fact that it was raining for about 3 quarters. Higher percentage short plays is smarter play with a potential slippery ball.

I do admit though that the 3 TD passes to Cobb reminded me of an AI exploiting play in Madden.
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
yooperfan
9 years ago

The ESPN folks showed a stat that Aaron Rodgers didn't complete a pass over 5 or 10 yards through I think three quarters or something. I read the article, it is not that hard to understand the negative grade. It's not the end of the world. I am finding it humorous how some are all "look ProFootballFocus is the dumb!" over this. If you for a second thing there is anything that is concrete in determining player worth, you're kind of naive. Because, if there was, then we wouldn't see draft picks being cut from teams ... ever.

PFF is good information. You can ignore it, you can take parts of it or you can go crazy and believe every single grade.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Thanks, I choose to ignore it.
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (8h) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (9h) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (16h) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
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