Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

But if you discover a difference, what does that accomplish? Again, if ESPN wants to go to all the trouble I'm not opposed to it, but it seems like a lot of work for inconsequential gains.

Do you NEED the QBR for HOF voting, for Pro Bowl voting, for MVP voting? In all instances we can think of how the eyeball test trumped stats. Vick was 2nd in MVP voting playing only 12 games and having inferior statistics to Schaub, Rodgers, Manning, Roddy White, A.Peterson, etc. but people understood his impact to the team w/o some fancy schmancy new stat.

All this QBR seems to accomplish is to give Skip Bayless or Colin Cowherd another arbitrary number to site when arguing who the best QB in the league is.

Originally Posted by: musccy 


If people can vote a guy to the probowl or HOF that didn't earn it, there should be an empirical way to say they were wrong. If just for the fun of being able to prove someone wrong.

Actually, Vick going over Rodgers kind of proves they need one.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Greg C.
13 years ago

If people can vote a guy to the probowl or HOF that didn't earn it, there should be an empirical way to say they were wrong. If just for the fun of being able to prove someone wrong.

Actually, Vick going over Rodgers kind of proves they need one.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Vick had a better QB rating than Rodgers for most of the season, and Pro Bowl voting takes place before the end of the season. It's as simple as that. If Rodgers got in ahead of anyone, it should've been Matt Ryan, but that was not a slam dunk by any means either, with the Falcon offense playing so well with Ryan as their leader. Rodgers not making the Pro Bowl was a bit of a fluke, but a lot of it had to do with him getting off to a bad start and the Packers struggling to make the playoffs. Nobody knew at the time that he was going to play so well in the playoffs and lead his team to a Super Bowl win.
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Pack93z
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13 years ago
Good overall article.. worth the read..


Defending traditional passer rating 

Passer Rating: A Deadly Accurate Indicator of Team Success

In ESPN's defense, the purpose of its effort is to find a better way to measure the all-around game of an individual quarterback. And "Total Quarterback Rating" may one day prove a great indicator of an individual quarterback's own personal abilities. Existing passer rating, meanwhile, purports to tell us only one thing: which quarterback is the most efficient passer.

So we appreciate the effort to find new ways to measure a quarterback's abilities. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts will repel any attack upon the existing passer rating's incredible record of success.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/08/03/defending-qb-rating/index.html#ixzz1VtL9Oobq 



"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
13 years ago

Good overall article.. worth the read..


Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Uh oh, amigo. Are you sure you want to post that article?

That article proves my point that it's a passing league and that rushing success is completely irrelevant to a team's success.

It also proves my point that Dom Capers is lying when he says we need to stop the run. That's just something he tells the press. It's amazing he can say it with a straight face. He must have gone to acting school.

CHFF is one of my sources for stats on why rushing success is completely irrelevant, and stopping the run is completely irrelevant because nobody really cares. Dom Capers could actually care less. His whole D is designed to stop the pass (but of course we pretend we care).

Note I said rushing success. I did not say to pass every single down. No reading between the lines here.
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Pack93z
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13 years ago



Note I said rushing success. I did not say to pass every single down. No reading between the lines here.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



That is all I ever argued personally.. run enough to provide balance.. unless it is in time consumption mode.. then run as much as you can if successful.. it will wear down the clock and save your defense.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

That is all I ever argued personally.. run enough to provide balance.. unless it is in time consumption mode.. then run as much as you can if successful.. it will wear down the clock and save your defense.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



And he's missed that point about a dozen times and continues to bang the same 'its a passing league' drum as if he's the only one to know that. 🤦
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zombieslayer
13 years ago

And he's missed that point about a dozen times and continues to bang the same 'its a passing league' drum as if he's the only one to know that. 🤦

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



It's not that "it's a passing league" is controversial. The statements I've made about "rushing success doesn't matter whatsoever" and "an elite RB actually hurts your team" and "don't waste money on RBs when you can get decent ones for cheap then get rid of them if they want more money" are controversial. That's what gets people bent out of shape.
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Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago
I am a little annoyed. I asked zombieslayer to post that article for me, since my time online is so limited lately, but he let Shawn get to it first. 👎
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zombieslayer
13 years ago

I am a little annoyed. I asked zombieslayer to post that article for me, since my time online is so limited lately, but he let Shawn get to it first. 👎

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



Pack beat me to it. Weird, because it was entirely coincidental.

I thought you were going to post it though but I forget you don't have 24/7 access to the internet.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

It's not that "it's a passing league" is controversial. The statements I've made about "rushing success doesn't matter whatsoever" and "an elite RB actually hurts your team" and "don't waste money on RBs when you can get decent ones for cheap then get rid of them if they want more money" are controversial. That's what gets people bent out of shape.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



And we've said several times that yes being more prolific rushing than passing isn't nearly as important as being more prolific passing than rushing. Also it was agreed you do not need an elite RB and it can actually hurt you, because if you need to come from behind, do you want to run it or pass it? Thus, an elite QB > elite RB.

Same damn drum, over and over again ... and you act like you're the only one who realizes what you're saying.

The only point I've seen disputed is the one (i dont believe you actually said) that said you don't need to run the ball at all.

Yes, rushing success does not equal wins nearly as much as passing success equals wins.

WE ALL KNOW, WE ALL AGREE, MOVE ON!!


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