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Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

But if you discover a difference, what does that accomplish? Again, if ESPN wants to go to all the trouble I'm not opposed to it, but it seems like a lot of work for inconsequential gains.

Do you NEED the QBR for HOF voting, for Pro Bowl voting, for MVP voting? In all instances we can think of how the eyeball test trumped stats. Vick was 2nd in MVP voting playing only 12 games and having inferior statistics to Schaub, Rodgers, Manning, Roddy White, A.Peterson, etc. but people understood his impact to the team w/o some fancy schmancy new stat.

All this QBR seems to accomplish is to give Skip Bayless or Colin Cowherd another arbitrary number to site when arguing who the best QB in the league is.

Originally Posted by: musccy 


If people can vote a guy to the probowl or HOF that didn't earn it, there should be an empirical way to say they were wrong. If just for the fun of being able to prove someone wrong.

Actually, Vick going over Rodgers kind of proves they need one.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Greg C.
13 years ago

If people can vote a guy to the probowl or HOF that didn't earn it, there should be an empirical way to say they were wrong. If just for the fun of being able to prove someone wrong.

Actually, Vick going over Rodgers kind of proves they need one.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Vick had a better QB rating than Rodgers for most of the season, and Pro Bowl voting takes place before the end of the season. It's as simple as that. If Rodgers got in ahead of anyone, it should've been Matt Ryan, but that was not a slam dunk by any means either, with the Falcon offense playing so well with Ryan as their leader. Rodgers not making the Pro Bowl was a bit of a fluke, but a lot of it had to do with him getting off to a bad start and the Packers struggling to make the playoffs. Nobody knew at the time that he was going to play so well in the playoffs and lead his team to a Super Bowl win.
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Pack93z
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13 years ago
Good overall article.. worth the read..


Defending traditional passer rating 

Passer Rating: A Deadly Accurate Indicator of Team Success

In ESPN's defense, the purpose of its effort is to find a better way to measure the all-around game of an individual quarterback. And "Total Quarterback Rating" may one day prove a great indicator of an individual quarterback's own personal abilities. Existing passer rating, meanwhile, purports to tell us only one thing: which quarterback is the most efficient passer.

So we appreciate the effort to find new ways to measure a quarterback's abilities. But the Cold, Hard Football Facts will repel any attack upon the existing passer rating's incredible record of success.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/08/03/defending-qb-rating/index.html#ixzz1VtL9Oobq 



"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
13 years ago

Good overall article.. worth the read..


Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Uh oh, amigo. Are you sure you want to post that article?

That article proves my point that it's a passing league and that rushing success is completely irrelevant to a team's success.

It also proves my point that Dom Capers is lying when he says we need to stop the run. That's just something he tells the press. It's amazing he can say it with a straight face. He must have gone to acting school.

CHFF is one of my sources for stats on why rushing success is completely irrelevant, and stopping the run is completely irrelevant because nobody really cares. Dom Capers could actually care less. His whole D is designed to stop the pass (but of course we pretend we care).

Note I said rushing success. I did not say to pass every single down. No reading between the lines here.
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Pack93z
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13 years ago



Note I said rushing success. I did not say to pass every single down. No reading between the lines here.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



That is all I ever argued personally.. run enough to provide balance.. unless it is in time consumption mode.. then run as much as you can if successful.. it will wear down the clock and save your defense.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

That is all I ever argued personally.. run enough to provide balance.. unless it is in time consumption mode.. then run as much as you can if successful.. it will wear down the clock and save your defense.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



And he's missed that point about a dozen times and continues to bang the same 'its a passing league' drum as if he's the only one to know that. 🤦
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zombieslayer
13 years ago

And he's missed that point about a dozen times and continues to bang the same 'its a passing league' drum as if he's the only one to know that. 🤦

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



It's not that "it's a passing league" is controversial. The statements I've made about "rushing success doesn't matter whatsoever" and "an elite RB actually hurts your team" and "don't waste money on RBs when you can get decent ones for cheap then get rid of them if they want more money" are controversial. That's what gets people bent out of shape.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago
I am a little annoyed. I asked zombieslayer to post that article for me, since my time online is so limited lately, but he let Shawn get to it first. 👎
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zombieslayer
13 years ago

I am a little annoyed. I asked zombieslayer to post that article for me, since my time online is so limited lately, but he let Shawn get to it first. 👎

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



Pack beat me to it. Weird, because it was entirely coincidental.

I thought you were going to post it though but I forget you don't have 24/7 access to the internet.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

It's not that "it's a passing league" is controversial. The statements I've made about "rushing success doesn't matter whatsoever" and "an elite RB actually hurts your team" and "don't waste money on RBs when you can get decent ones for cheap then get rid of them if they want more money" are controversial. That's what gets people bent out of shape.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



And we've said several times that yes being more prolific rushing than passing isn't nearly as important as being more prolific passing than rushing. Also it was agreed you do not need an elite RB and it can actually hurt you, because if you need to come from behind, do you want to run it or pass it? Thus, an elite QB > elite RB.

Same damn drum, over and over again ... and you act like you're the only one who realizes what you're saying.

The only point I've seen disputed is the one (i dont believe you actually said) that said you don't need to run the ball at all.

Yes, rushing success does not equal wins nearly as much as passing success equals wins.

WE ALL KNOW, WE ALL AGREE, MOVE ON!!


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Fan Shout
beast (2h) : I was rooting for the Bears to win and hurt their draft pick status
Zero2Cool (2h) : Forgot there was even a game last night haha
TheKanataThrilla (2h) : That was terrible.
TheKanataThrilla (2h) : Watching that game in its entirety yesterday is proof positive that I am a football addict.
beast (2h) : And horrible time management multiple times... and not being able to score more than 3 points on a team with talent
beast (2h) : Realizing the Bears didn't fix it from the previous week and do the same thing, getting the game to overtime
beast (2h) : They probably are not tanking, but they've absolutely mismanagement some things, such as Vikings seeing the Packers blocked FG and realizing
Zero2Cool (3h) : Crazy of Bears to have that mindset that is
Zero2Cool (3h) : Hail Mary stop away from 5 - 2. Not sure how that flips to tanking. Crazy mindset if true
beast (4h) : I've quietly questioned if Bears are tanking on purpose... they suddenly got a lot worse with some simple concepts like 101 clock management
wpr (6h) : Watching bares fans melt down over how putrid their team is, so enjoyable. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Mucky Tundra (14h) : The Seattle Seahawks defeat the Chicago Bears 6-3. Jason Myers had 6 RBIs for Seattle while Cairo Santos had 3 RBI for Chicago
beast (14h) : Not nessarily, he might of been injured either way. He's playing about 50% of the games the last 4 years
Zero2Cool (21h) : If they'd been more patient with him, he'd be back already. Putting him out there vs Bears caused him to tweak it and here we are.
packerfanoutwest (21h) : well this is his last season with the PAck, book it
beast (22h) : Sounds like no Alexander (again), I'm wondering if his time with the Packers is done
Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.
Mucky Tundra (26-Dec) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
packerfanoutwest (25-Dec) : Feliz Navidad!
Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!
beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
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