zombieslayer
14 years ago
This is funny looking back at it now. Several years ago on a website that should not be named, RaiderPride was ranting about how Defense wins Championships. I told him he was full of it and how sick I am of stupid worn out clichs, then in my attempt to prove him wrong, I ended up proving him right.

Whoops.

So for you sports history fans, a little bit on the Green Bay Packers and how we won our Championships not because of a high profile running game or a sexy Quarterback, it was because of Defense.

The Green Bay Packers since 1921 have won 12 Championships, which is more than any other team. I'm not going to go back all the way to 1921 because a) I'm lazy, and b) I'll put you to sleep. Instead, we'll start from the Lombardi years.

Vince Lombardi, the greatest coach ever, took over a pathetic 1-10-1 team in 1959 and in his very first year, coached the team to a winning record at 7-5-0. The very next year, we were in the Playoffs. We won 5 Championships under Lombardi including the first 2 SBs and 1 Championship (Super Bowl) since. These are the Green Bay Packers Championships since our first Lombardi one in 1961, the regular season record, and the Offense and Defense rankings.


Year     Record    Off    Def
1961     11-3        1      2
1962     13-1        1      1
1965     10-3-1     8      1
1966     12-2        4      1
1967     9-4-1       9      3
1996     13-3        1      1

Now yes, you can see we had a potent O in half those years, but during each Championship, we had a top 3 D including 4 times with the #1 D. And actually in 1965, there were only 14 teams and in 1967, we had the 9th top O out of 16 teams. That puts us in the lower half when it comes to O both years. Thank God for a potent D to bail us.

The Los Angeles Rams had the NFL's best O in '67. A lot of use it did them as they only scored 7 points in the Playoff game against us. We sacked Pro Bowler Roman Gabriel five times and picked him off once while limiting their rushers to only 75 yards.

In 1965, the Niners had the best O led by Pro Bowler John Brodie. They didn't even make the Playoffs.

A little tidbit, since the Lombardi years, every single time we had the #1 D, we won the Championship.

Why do I bring this up now? Well, kind of makes you feel better about this 2010 team, don't ya think? (In case you don't know, we currently have the NFL's #1 D).
My man Donald Driver
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mi_keys
14 years ago
+1

Good post.

I really wish I could have been around to watch the defenses of the entire present day NFC North back in the 60's. From the Packers, Bears, Vikings, and Lions you had some of the best one's around.
Born and bred a cheesehead
peteralan71
14 years ago

This is funny looking back at it now. Several years ago on a website that should not be named, RaiderPride was ranting about how Defense wins Championships. I told him he was full of it and how sick I am of stupid worn out clichs, then in my attempt to prove him wrong, I ended up proving him right.

Whoops.

So for you sports history fans, a little bit on the Green Bay Packers and how we won our Championships not because of a high profile running game or a sexy Quarterback, it was because of Defense.

The Green Bay Packers since 1921 have won 12 Championships, which is more than any other team. I'm not going to go back all the way to 1921 because a) I'm lazy, and b) I'll put you to sleep. Instead, we'll start from the Lombardi years.

Vince Lombardi, the greatest coach ever, took over a pathetic 1-10-1 team in 1959 and in his very first year, coached the team to a winning record at 7-5-0. The very next year, we were in the Playoffs. We won 5 Championships under Lombardi including the first 2 SBs and 1 Championship (Super Bowl) since. These are the Green Bay Packers Championships since our first Lombardi one in 1961, the regular season record, and the Offense and Defense rankings.


Year     Record    Off    Def
1961     11-3        1      2
1962     13-1        1      1
1965     10-3-1     8      1
1966     12-2        4      1
1967     9-4-1       9      3
1996     13-3        1      1

Now yes, you can see we had a potent O in half those years, but during each Championship, we had a top 3 D including 4 times with the #1 D. And actually in 1965, there were only 14 teams and in 1967, we had the 9th top O out of 16 teams. That puts us in the lower half when it comes to O both years. Thank God for a potent D to bail us.

The Los Angeles Rams had the NFL's best O in '67. A lot of use it did them as they only scored 7 points in the Playoff game against us. We sacked Pro Bowler Roman Gabriel five times and picked him off once while limiting their rushers to only 75 yards.

In 1965, the Niners had the best O led by Pro Bowler John Brodie. They didn't even make the Playoffs.

A little tidbit, since the Lombardi years, every single time we had the #1 D, we won the Championship.

Why do I bring this up now? Well, kind of makes you feel better about this 2010 team, don't ya think? (In case you don't know, we currently have the NFL's #1 D).

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Brings to mind this little idiom I've heard: "Defense wins championships." ;)

+1 Awesome post, idk where you find all this stuff.
Green Bay: Home of the Green & Gold. And the hunter orange. And the camouflage.
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Greg C.
14 years ago
I used to be like you, zombie. I thought "defense wins championships" was an empty cliche. Then I saw the same numbers you did and had to change my tune. Facts are awful that way sometimes.

One question: Do you know if those rankings are based on yards or on points?
blank
Rockmolder
14 years ago
Let's be honest, though, this was a different era.

An era where passing was a lot harder to do and a lot easier to defend.

Next to that, our offense was right up there with our defense nearly every time we won a championship. That team was just stacked.

Having Willie Davis, Herb Adderly, Willie Wood, Ray Nitschke, Henry Jordan, Bart Starr, Forrest Gregg, Jim Taylor, Paul Hornung, should-be-HoF-er Jerry Kramer. This was a complete package, rather than being dominant on one side of the ball.

The Ravens won it on defense and with their running game.

The St. Louis Rams won it the year before that with "the greatest show on turf", on of the best offenses every assembled.

The defensive and pounding Steelers won Super Bowl XL.

The SB next year was won by the offensively explosive Colts.

To me it seems like you just have to have one or two dominant parts on your team, while the rest has to be around the top 10.

Now, I like defensive play. If it was up to me, we'd build this team like the Patriots did. Build a good passing offense, have a halfway decent running game that's able to get some pressure off the QB and pound it into 6-man boxes and have a sick pass rush coming off the edges.

We're actually quite close to having that same kind off team, already.

The big names for the Patriots were Tom Brady (Rodgers), Kevin Faulk (Jackson), declining Corey Dillon (Kuhn), Deion Branch (Jennings), Troy Brown (Driver), Matt Light (Chad Clifton), Vince Wilfork (Raji), Richard Seymour (Jenkins), Willie McGinnest (Matthews), Mike Vrabel (---), Teddy Bruschi ([strike]Barnett[/strike]), Asante Samual (Woodson), Rodney Harrison (---).

Of course, we don't have the exact same personel group as they did and the comparisons aren't exactly spot on skill-wise (Matthews is playing better than McGinnest, but Kuhn isn't as good as Dillon, even on the decline)

Anyway, I thought that was pretty funny. And confidence boosting. Especially if you add our own weapons that they Pats didn't even have in Collins, Williams etc.

EDIT: Oh yeah, +1, if for the effort alone. Great post.
Pack93z
14 years ago
So let me get this straight, Zombie promotes defense winning championships, yet adamantly argues that offenses need balance to sustain drives, dictate time of possession and thus assisting the defense obtaining their goals via staying fresh and making the opposing offenses earn their yards. { Editorial note (in place of a emoticon) Yanking Zombie's chain.. in humor.. at the same time setting up my rebuttal}

They are connected in my opinion.. and many fail to understand just how much energy is exerted on defensive players verses their counterpart offensive players.. the offense knows where they are going.. the defense is trying to prevent a number of different opportunities on a given snap.

It is your offenses duty to limit the amount of time you a defensive player spends upon the field.

Want a eye popping stat.. look no further than TOP and the winning percentage with those that control it.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
14 years ago
And a plus one for Zombie on his opening post.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago

I used to be like you, zombie. I thought "defense wins championships" was an empty cliche. Then I saw the same numbers you did and had to change my tune. Facts are awful that way sometimes.

One question: Do you know if those rankings are based on yards or on points?

"Greg C." wrote:



Points, of course. :)

Rock - There is no winning formula and no guarantees. The Jets had the #1 D but a mediocre QB last year. They lost in the Playoffs. However, check the Ds of the SBs since 2000. I think 4 times, the SB winner had the #1 D. So although no guarantee, there's truth to D wins championships.

Keys - I told Cheesey I envy him because I started when Bart Starr was coach. Bad years.

Peteralan - pro-football-reference.com has a lot of good stats.

Pack - You want a complete team ideally. You don't want an O that goes 3 and out and punts every time or else the D will be throwing up by the end of the game.

As a historian, you have your beliefs. However, if presented facts that prove you wrong, you have to change. It's your job.

In this case, I tried proving RP wrong with facts and ended up proving him right.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
peteralan71
14 years ago
THANK YOU! I'm gonna get even less done now haha.
Green Bay: Home of the Green & Gold. And the hunter orange. And the camouflage.
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Pack93z
14 years ago
Dislike the gent.. but he nails it.. stats are over-rated.


Bill Belichick explains which stats he likes
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 17, 2010, 10:41 AM EST

A year ago, Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked to explain the decline in statistical production from Randy Moss, and he bristled at the question.

Stats are for losers, Belichick said then. The final score is for winners.

Belichick no longer has to defend Moss, but he does still have some thoughts on stats. And although hes not exactly backing down on his statement that the score is what matters, he did revise and extend his remarks about stats when asked by reporters whether the statistical numbers have any meaning.

I think they all have meaning; its just the priority of the stats, Belichick said. Wins is number one. Points is number two, because that correlates to winning.

Although points havent correlated to winning for the Detroit Lions this year, in general Belichick is right about that. And he said the other stats he looks at are all related to points.

And then you get to the things that correlate to scoring, which [are] red area, big plays, and third down becomes a part of that because of being able to sustain drives and that type of things, Belichick said. But if you make big plays, then third down becomes less important. You can offset any good numbers with bad numbers. You can offset bad numbers with good numbers, but in the end, its about getting points on the board and keeping them off. . . . Im not saying theyre not significant, they are, but the ones that correlate the highest to winning, you still have to consider them as the most important.

So stats arent necessarily for losers. As long as the stats in question correlate to the Patriots becoming winners.

"PFTalk" wrote:


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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