djcubez
14 years ago
I agree with Rock here. I don't think there's any one thing that will take your team into the Super Bowl, otherwise everyone would be doing it. It's definitely a combination of different factors.

The one thing I dislike about stats is they never tell the whole story of a game. A football game is a lot about tempo, momentum and motivation. Whatever team wants it more is usually the team that's going to win.

I was not around in the Lombardi years but I feel that the team was good based on the inspiration of Vince. Anytime you have a man that can lead a team like that, regardless of the talent level of the players, you're going to fight and scrap for a win.

It's kind of like basketball. The teams that win the most aren't teams that are built around one superstar. They're the teams where players know their roles and have good chemistry. Where all the players fit in, work together and work hard.

Look at the Dallas Cowboys this year. Their morale was low you could see it on the field. Their body language said it all. Wade gets fired, Garret steps in and all of a sudden they have fire again, taking down the division leading Giants. Look at Rex Ryan. That team plays for him. The Vikings play in spite of Childress.

I love stats but I think that comes more with playing Fantasy and Madden than actual football.
peteralan71
14 years ago

The one thing I dislike about stats is they never tell the whole story of a game. A football game is a lot about tempo, momentum and motivation. Whatever team wants it more is usually the team that's going to win.

"djcubez" wrote:



Stats tell as much of the "whole story" of the game as anything else does. You may argue that the score tells more. A team can play VERY well but just not be able to finish it up. Stats tell the most about a game from a single standpoint, as far as I'm concerned.
Green Bay: Home of the Green & Gold. And the hunter orange. And the camouflage.
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Pack93z
14 years ago
There is a myth that there is the perfect elite defense.. they are as rare as it gets. Most teams disguise their weakness very well and pass themselves off as a great defense.

The key to winning, isn't found in a single stat.. it is studying the opponent, identifying their weakness and being able to exploit them.

To be consistent game in and out.. you have to have the ability and the balance to be able to attack the opposition on any front.

You can win with a single faceted offense.. but if you truly want to be consistent and dominate.. you better be able to be able to do multiple things effectively.. because sooner or later a team you will run into will take away one or the other element of our offense.. and in game you will need to be able to adjust, force them out of their scheme and then hammer them with your strength.

You might think that only applies to offense, it doesn't.. the same is true on defense and most notably pass coverage. If you are cover two or zone defense.. teams will attack it and gouge you.. or if you are a man team they will employ presnap movement or stacked set and create natural space for the receiver release. You better be able to interchange effectively to adjust in game.. otherwise you are going to be attacked.

The equalizer is if you can dominate the line of scrimmage, but as you move on in the playoff, that is going to be less and less likely.

Again.. there is no single stat that will drive home a consistent dominate result.. pass happy, run happy, defense happy unless you possess a once in a decade type defense. I have seen two.. 85 Bears and 01 Ravens.. the rest.. great defenses, but they all could be attacked.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago
I didn't watch much football in 2001, but rooted for the '85 Bears because it was my only chance to see Wallie get a SB ring. I was a huge Wallie fan.

Yes, their D actually attacked. It was the only D I've ever seen where the D attacked instead of reacted.

I agree with you, Pack. It takes a complete team. That's why I specifically say there's no magical formula. Plus, an O that just sits on the field all day long getting first down after first down while dragging the morale down for the opposing team sure makes the D's job easy.

I'm an O guy. I hate D. I'd much rather see a team like the '09 Saints where the D kind of sucked but at the absolute right time, got a game saving INT. I love seeing an O that's so good that they just keep scoring. My favorite game of all time was in '83 when the Dickey led Packers beat the SB champs 48-47. I hate seeing punts. I want to see score after score.

But let's say you never watched the game before. You're blind, or whatever. All you got is stats. You can't see the minute details, you just get figures in braille. Or, you're a historian 1000 years in the future and there's this thing called the Super Bowl that was a big thing with the nation America. You want to see which numbers made it more likely to win a game. Well, the answer would be the #1 D was your best shot at winning the Super Bowl game. No guarantee, of course. It's just your best shot.

That's what I'm getting at. You put in details. Take them out. Just look at numbers and numbers alone.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
warhawk
14 years ago
I have been a big believer that the opportunity to make it to the SB coincides with having at least a top 5 D. If you have that you have a chance against anybody.

If you look at the BIG PLAY stats you know what you have.

Turnovers
Sacks/QB Pressures
Big Plays Allowed (30+yards)
Redzone stops
PA after a turnover

You look at the really good D's and their stats are at the top in these catagories. What do these stats represent? BIG PLAYS. MOMENTUM KILLING PLAYS. I agree momentum is HUGE. How do you get it?

It's a BIG PLAY league. The team making the most of them wins.

So if you don't think stats count for much work it backwards. Look at all these stats and find where your ranked and it will reflect back in the stat of Points Allowed. All the stats are doing is showing what's going on out there on the field.

We happen to be #1 in Points Allowed. You go back through and look at the stats I posted above and we are very high if not at the top of all of them. It's no coincedence since we have crept to the top in PA we are winning. The underlying stats that got us that ranking is the reason for it.
"The train is leaving the station."
zombieslayer
14 years ago
Well said, Warhawk.

Let's take a look at the past 3 years - 2008, 2009, and 2010. 2008, we had a top tier O but no D. We sucked. 2009, we had a top tier O and a pretty good D (but not elite). We made the Playoffs. 2010, we have a lesser O than either of those 2 years, but the best D in the NFL. Well, this year we have a better shot at winning the SB than we did in '08 or '09.

Also note that in '10, we're turning the ball over. Yet, we'd still beat the '09 team even though the '09 Aaron Rodgers does circles around '10 Aaron Rodgers and Ryan Grant does circles around Brandon Jackson. Plus the '10 WR unit as a whole is not as good as '07, '08, or '09.

Gotta give some props to Mr. Capers.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Pack93z
14 years ago

Well, this year we have a better shot at winning the SB than we did in '08 or '09.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Ahhh... I shall ask the historian to quantify via stats why we have a better chance this season as last?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago

Well, this year we have a better shot at winning the SB than we did in '08 or '09.

"pack93z" wrote:



Ahhh... I shall ask the historian to quantify via stats why we have a better chance this season as last?

"zombieslayer" wrote:



This time last year we were 5-4. Today, we have the 2nd most wins in the NFC, and the 4th most wins in the NFL.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Pack93z
14 years ago

Well, this year we have a better shot at winning the SB than we did in '08 or '09.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Ahhh... I shall ask the historian to quantify via stats why we have a better chance this season as last?

"pack93z" wrote:



This time last year we were 5-4. Today, we have the 2nd most wins in the NFC, and the 4th most wins in the NFL.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



So.. when asked.. you turned to the wins instead of the defensive ranking, TOP, TO ratio or what not.

Daily portion of giving Zombie a quick zing complete.. continuing the regularly scheduled program. 😉
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
14 years ago
My brain just blew up.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
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beast (46m) : Yeah, but also some of the wording suggestions Jax only pranked called the QB, not the others... and if he had an open spreadsheet & 3 calls
beast (48m) : Thank goodness he's not leaving the Turtle in the Red Tide
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Cowboys 1st round pick Tyler Booker will indeed be bringing his pet turtle to Dallas with him
Mucky Tundra (1h) : that contained all prospects info and contact
Mucky Tundra (1h) : beast, according the Falcons statement Jax came across it on an ipad. If I had to guess, probably an open spread sheet or something
Zero2Cool (1h) : Simmons put up an emoji with cheese.
beast (1h) : Not sure anyone is interested in Isaiah Simmons... Collin Oliver might of taken his potential slot
beast (2h) : I'm going with Jax Ulbrich is not telling the whole truth... he accidentally came across it? Why would a defensive coordinator have a QB #?
Zero2Cool (2h) : He's not that great, but final piece of the script.\
Zero2Cool (2h) : If we add Isaiah Simmons, book your Super Bowl tickets
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Colts 1st round TE Tyler Warren also got prank called, was that Jax Ulbrich as well?
Zero2Cool (3h) : Jax Ulbrich, Jeff Ulbrich’s son, released an apology for his role in the Shedeur Sanders prank call.
Martha Careful (3h) : apparently he did not participate in practice or play on the east west shrine game nor the NFL combine. The kid was a mediocre spoiled brat
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Yeah that one that was a super wounded duck that Sanders supporters are highlighting to prove a point
Zero2Cool (3h) : Shough is the guy who missed guys at combine isn't he?
beast (4h) : It's not official until I'm dead! I have a chance still! (Not really)
Mucky Tundra (13h) : I could feel my body decomposing in real time when I read that
Mucky Tundra (13h) : @MIKEYSAINRISTIL Tyler Shough will officially be the last person drafted to the NFL born in the 1900’s
Mucky Tundra (23h) : saw the tweet, he meant the city
Mucky Tundra (23h) : Was that for the team or the city?
Zero2Cool (23h) : Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter · 3m Draft grade is in: Green Bay gets an A. The people, the city, the venue were all superb. NFL Draft’s next
Zero2Cool (23h) : Matt LaFleur says Jaire Alexander is participating in #Packers offseason program, which has been conducted virtually during this first week
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : ✅ ...
buckeyepackfan (26-Apr) : Check
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Matthew Golden cahanged 81 to 22??
TheKanataThrilla (26-Apr) : Sam Howell to Vikings...guess no Aaron
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : 1 round 7 min, with one extra minute if there is a trade. 2nd round 4 minutes, 3rd -3, 2 thereafter IMO
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Agree
dfosterf (26-Apr) : Great idea imo
dfosterf (26-Apr) : 1st round to 7 minutes with one extension
dfosterf (26-Apr) : NFL comissioner wants to shorten the 2st
Mucky Tundra (26-Apr) : @jalenreagors They’re discussing if Sheduer can go back to college on NFL Network LMFAOOOOO
beast (26-Apr) : Great point Martha
beast (26-Apr) : Buddy Ryan used to say if a candy bar goes missing, there are two to blame, Rex and Rob 🤪 jk 😁
Martha Careful (26-Apr) : Bum Phillips used to say there are two ways to get better. Get better players or get players to play better. We have a new DL coach
Zero2Cool (26-Apr) : Yes. Look at the losses last year. They can win.
beast (26-Apr) : Can Packers win with their current DL?
bboystyle (26-Apr) : waiting for a pass rusher.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes between picks in the 3rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 3rd. Hate this phone
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 4rd
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 5 minutes in the 4
dfosterf (25-Apr) : 7 minutes between picks in the 2nd round
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : Sorry to bitch, but the headline writers in that section absolutely mislead, or don't know how to read. It is maddening
Martha Careful (25-Apr) : No thanks. Not a dependable guy to be in the right place and run the right route. Dumb as a box of rocks.
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : Losing 2nd round pick for a one year rental, not ideal. Especially a headcase.
TheKanataThrilla (25-Apr) : Pickens for Jaire may be interesting. Definitely not sure we want Pickens long term.
dfosterf (25-Apr) : No.Absolutely not
Zero2Cool (25-Apr) : NO NO NO NO NO NO!!1 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
dhazer (25-Apr) : scenario: Our main prospects are off the board when our pick comes around, do we just throw a 2nd round pick at Pittsburgh for Pickens
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