Dulak
14 years ago
Interesting topic VLS ... I also have been 'debating' things in my mind about religion in general lately.

My background is mainly a christian upbringing (church on and off) and dated a girl back in highschool/college and attended a jehovas witness church for 1 1/2 years.

Coming to england has been a pretty interesting experience ... recently I had a discussion about a muslim about some things
guy was married and had a wife seemed pretty normal - he said some things that stuck out.
1. that is was good that the towers got hit, 2. I asked him why do muslims pray 5x a day and he said thats just what they do.

I am also living with a jewish friend and observing how he is ...

I also talked with a hindu guy and read a few books on the bagadagita (spelling) and he told me the general gist of the religion etc ... IMO I found inconsistancies with it.

To be honest from my limited understanding of religion and their attempting to do works to be right with a God; I find interesting ...
IMO it seems all of these relgions and many more are based on men; not god. They may say it has come from god; but in essence it always dates back to some men and it starts from there ...

this brings me to the question weather any man has the knowledge to be a greater bringing of life to me then myself ...

When I see various people from various relgions interacting such as a group of muslims talking to each other or my friend talking about how he and his jewish friends are or even hindus speaking with each other; often what I see is the general togetherness that they experience and the common bonds of that particular religion is what brings them together. Know what I mean?
Its not that our relgion is right and this is why we are talking its we share some commonalities and this is why we are sharing together.

So the question does come up for me; is there a god if there is does he really perscribe one religion over another? and how are we to judge what it is and whom is right? ...
oh I also found it funny the movie the invention of lying the part about the 'man in the sky' - and that many people today act in a similar way as that movie.

To be honest I think many peoples decision for believing in god is the alternative ... if there is no god then there is no afterlife and how are we to know the moral guidelines and if there is no god then this is it? ... we are just flesh creatures here for a time then will die?

Look at all sorts of cultures and how they created different things to worship because it gave them hope or peace or a sense of being; something to believe in ... but again what if none of that is true ...

again I feel strange even writing about this since having been brought up christian - but these are my feelings ... and I do not know what is out there and what will happen when we die. And I do not think any MAN on earth does either.
Perhaps I could talk to someone whom has talked to God so he could tell me eh?

food for thought
zombieslayer
14 years ago
Some good stuff, VLS.

My beliefs are pretty simple - don't ban my s*** and give me some space.

Animals taste good but for moral reasons, I refuse to eat dogs, dolphins, or primates.

When all the trees have been cut down,
when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted,
when all the air is unsafe to breathe,
only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

- Cree Nation.



Awesome.

As for religion, I'm pretty private about my personal religious beliefs but religious people are full of it, including atheists and especially communists. I've found one thing the majority of religious people want to do is they want to cram their religion down your throat and no matter what you belief, it's wrong, and only they're right.

As much as they say they're tolerant, they're not. Just like liberals. Liberals claim to be so freaking tolerant but behind closed doors, they're some of the most spiteful people you'll ever meet.

You bring up capital punishment. In theory, you're correct. They deserve to die. But I also belief in small government and the government having the power to execute citizens scares me more than serial killers.

So what am I getting at? We're all full of it, myself included. Just don't ban my s*** and give me plenty of space. I think that's pretty close to the Founding Fathers.
My man Donald Driver
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Pack93z
14 years ago

I call myself a "Biblicist". Meaning i believe the Bible is the word of God, and if ANY religion adds to or takes away from it, they are wrong, period.
Most of what the Bible says is pretty straight forward, but mankind has a way of messing it up when he tries too hard to "overthink" it..

"Cheesey" wrote:



{Before I start.. I would like to make sure that Cheesey and anyone else take this as a global statement.. not directed toward anyone specific or individually..more so at the forms of religion and their teachings themselves.}


But it isn't the word of God, it is the transcripts of the prophets, which were gathered and transcribed by man, and that process itself is left for personal bias.

Which leads to the contradictions that are clear in the bible.. yet forms of religion and believers want to take only what fits their scope and leave out the rest to the voids of gray area and deemed unimportant or ambiguous in nature. Then pointing back at another script and rendering this one as lost.

So now.. as a believer need to witness to them, and try to help them.

Really... what about the scripture that talks directly gay behavior? It is in the bible.. it is part of the scripture.. yet the people practicing the behavior are condemned because yet another part of the bible calls it a sin? Never mind that contradiction.. your doomed!

That has always been my issue with the bible, the Catholic church, heck most any religion I have seen.. not addressing the ambiguous scriptures in the bible yet holding the select parts that they deem as "the word" and running with it as that damning judgment or a pulpit to preach from.

And I use homosexuality out as an example because of the OP.. beyond the 10 commandments really where is it clearly defined what sin is without contradiction? Wait.. cancel that.. even the 10 commandments have contradictions.

Another 'Thy shall not kill'... yet in the bible, in history, in today's world we kill everyday on the word of God.. point to another part of the bible where it is okay to defend oneself.. in war, whom decides the aggressor or defender? Where in the bible does it forgive a president to go to war over a trumped up proof of WMD? Or Oil? Or religion itself? Or revenge for 9/11? Over defending our way of life... is our way of life really the correct way according to the bible?

I have faith that there is a God, even though he has never spoken or communicated directly with me.. but I will be damned if I am going to tell another they are doomed for the pits of hell because of what the believe based on a bible that is full of contradictions transcribed by man and cherry picked by religion that can't admit the contradiction in the good book.

Again.. I believe in God.. and I will be judged accordingly. by him or his appointed... not by another flawed human basing their views on written word but ignoring what they don't want to accept.

I believe, just not in man's created forms of religion and the stigma's that they cast.

Yet I am a hypocrite because I attend church to expand my understanding of the bible.. even though not fully explored there.. because it is too uncomfortable or taboo of some sort.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
VinceLambeauStarr
14 years ago

Interesting topic VLS ... I also have been 'debating' things in my mind about religion in general lately.

My background is mainly a christian upbringing (church on and off) and dated a girl back in highschool/college and attended a jehovas witness church for 1 1/2 years.

Coming to england has been a pretty interesting experience ... recently I had a discussion about a muslim about some things
guy was married and had a wife seemed pretty normal - he said some things that stuck out.
1. that is was good that the towers got hit, 2. I asked him why do muslims pray 5x a day and he said thats just what they do.

I am also living with a jewish friend and observing how he is ...

I also talked with a hindu guy and read a few books on the bagadagita (spelling) and he told me the general gist of the religion etc ... IMO I found inconsistancies with it.

To be honest from my limited understanding of religion and their attempting to do works to be right with a God; I find interesting ...
IMO it seems all of these relgions and many more are based on men; not god. They may say it has come from god; but in essence it always dates back to some men and it starts from there ...

this brings me to the question weather any man has the knowledge to be a greater bringing of life to me then myself ...

When I see various people from various relgions interacting such as a group of muslims talking to each other or my friend talking about how he and his jewish friends are or even hindus speaking with each other; often what I see is the general togetherness that they experience and the common bonds of that particular religion is what brings them together. Know what I mean?
Its not that our relgion is right and this is why we are talking its we share some commonalities and this is why we are sharing together.

So the question does come up for me; is there a god if there is does he really perscribe one religion over another? and how are we to judge what it is and whom is right? ...
oh I also found it funny the movie the invention of lying the part about the 'man in the sky' - and that many people today act in a similar way as that movie.

To be honest I think many peoples decision for believing in god is the alternative ... if there is no god then there is no afterlife and how are we to know the moral guidelines and if there is no god then this is it? ... we are just flesh creatures here for a time then will die?

Look at all sorts of cultures and how they created different things to worship because it gave them hope or peace or a sense of being; something to believe in ... but again what if none of that is true ...

again I feel strange even writing about this since having been brought up christian - but these are my feelings ... and I do not know what is out there and what will happen when we die. And I do not think any MAN on earth does either.
Perhaps I could talk to someone whom has talked to God so he could tell me eh?

food for thought

"Dulak" wrote:



Hey Dules,

You share similar thoughts to mine. I was raised in a somewhat devout Roman Catholic household but it didn't come as a surprise when I "denounced" my religion, I saw it as giving myself a blank canvas and starting from scratch.

My girlfriend/soon to be fiancee is Hindu, and her life is better for it.

The whole concept of trying to justify massive loss of life for a greater good seems RETARDED to me. Your Muslim friend is not someone I personally would talk to, because those 3000+ plus people in the Towers, the 1000's in Israel/Pallestine/Bosnia/Congo all have families, stories, histories. I can never envision the loss of that being justified.

I do not want to offend anybody who has ever served in the forces, heck alot of my family did and still do - but I feel one civillian casualty nullifies the purpose, unless civilian casualty was the purpose or part of it.
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4PackGirl
14 years ago
great topic. i believe in God. i believe in Heaven & Hell. without these beliefs, my life would literally not be worth living. i don't believe in God because i think i'm gonna get some great 'reward' nor do i think i'm better than those who have their own beliefs. my truest wish is that if you don't believe in God that you do believe in some 'higher power'. sometimes hearing a sermon can speak to my heart & lifts me up in ways that nothing else can. at the same time, church politics have left me cold to attending church regularly. this i find to be extremely sad. for organized religion as a whole.
Tezzy
14 years ago
These conversations can be tough because at any time arguments can flip between being philosophical or academic, but makes for good reading in my book.

Personally I proscribe to Agnostic atheism. I don't personally believe in deities, but yet I can't argue that they don't exist, because we are talking about belief.

Being of scientific mind, I understand how electricity works and can run the numbers, yet I can't actually see electricity, only its affect upon other objects. It can power medical equipment to save lives, yet at the same time be used to torture people tied to a bed frame. Sounds a lot like religion. So it's interesting that I can't take that same view and apply it to religion. I can see and listen to people that have belief and see the affects that belief can have on peoples actions, but yet I don't believe. Go figure.
On top of every beard grows a man.
"The Bears are shell-shocked... and it's breaking my heart."
Cheesey
14 years ago
VLS....there is NOTHING wrong with questioning things. I was that kid too......but then there comes a time where you have to "commit" either way. That's how i feel, at least.
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