Dulak
14 years ago
Interesting topic VLS ... I also have been 'debating' things in my mind about religion in general lately.

My background is mainly a christian upbringing (church on and off) and dated a girl back in highschool/college and attended a jehovas witness church for 1 1/2 years.

Coming to england has been a pretty interesting experience ... recently I had a discussion about a muslim about some things
guy was married and had a wife seemed pretty normal - he said some things that stuck out.
1. that is was good that the towers got hit, 2. I asked him why do muslims pray 5x a day and he said thats just what they do.

I am also living with a jewish friend and observing how he is ...

I also talked with a hindu guy and read a few books on the bagadagita (spelling) and he told me the general gist of the religion etc ... IMO I found inconsistancies with it.

To be honest from my limited understanding of religion and their attempting to do works to be right with a God; I find interesting ...
IMO it seems all of these relgions and many more are based on men; not god. They may say it has come from god; but in essence it always dates back to some men and it starts from there ...

this brings me to the question weather any man has the knowledge to be a greater bringing of life to me then myself ...

When I see various people from various relgions interacting such as a group of muslims talking to each other or my friend talking about how he and his jewish friends are or even hindus speaking with each other; often what I see is the general togetherness that they experience and the common bonds of that particular religion is what brings them together. Know what I mean?
Its not that our relgion is right and this is why we are talking its we share some commonalities and this is why we are sharing together.

So the question does come up for me; is there a god if there is does he really perscribe one religion over another? and how are we to judge what it is and whom is right? ...
oh I also found it funny the movie the invention of lying the part about the 'man in the sky' - and that many people today act in a similar way as that movie.

To be honest I think many peoples decision for believing in god is the alternative ... if there is no god then there is no afterlife and how are we to know the moral guidelines and if there is no god then this is it? ... we are just flesh creatures here for a time then will die?

Look at all sorts of cultures and how they created different things to worship because it gave them hope or peace or a sense of being; something to believe in ... but again what if none of that is true ...

again I feel strange even writing about this since having been brought up christian - but these are my feelings ... and I do not know what is out there and what will happen when we die. And I do not think any MAN on earth does either.
Perhaps I could talk to someone whom has talked to God so he could tell me eh?

food for thought
zombieslayer
14 years ago
Some good stuff, VLS.

My beliefs are pretty simple - don't ban my s*** and give me some space.

Animals taste good but for moral reasons, I refuse to eat dogs, dolphins, or primates.

When all the trees have been cut down,
when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted,
when all the air is unsafe to breathe,
only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

- Cree Nation.



Awesome.

As for religion, I'm pretty private about my personal religious beliefs but religious people are full of it, including atheists and especially communists. I've found one thing the majority of religious people want to do is they want to cram their religion down your throat and no matter what you belief, it's wrong, and only they're right.

As much as they say they're tolerant, they're not. Just like liberals. Liberals claim to be so freaking tolerant but behind closed doors, they're some of the most spiteful people you'll ever meet.

You bring up capital punishment. In theory, you're correct. They deserve to die. But I also belief in small government and the government having the power to execute citizens scares me more than serial killers.

So what am I getting at? We're all full of it, myself included. Just don't ban my s*** and give me plenty of space. I think that's pretty close to the Founding Fathers.
My man Donald Driver
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Pack93z
14 years ago

I call myself a "Biblicist". Meaning i believe the Bible is the word of God, and if ANY religion adds to or takes away from it, they are wrong, period.
Most of what the Bible says is pretty straight forward, but mankind has a way of messing it up when he tries too hard to "overthink" it..

"Cheesey" wrote:



{Before I start.. I would like to make sure that Cheesey and anyone else take this as a global statement.. not directed toward anyone specific or individually..more so at the forms of religion and their teachings themselves.}


But it isn't the word of God, it is the transcripts of the prophets, which were gathered and transcribed by man, and that process itself is left for personal bias.

Which leads to the contradictions that are clear in the bible.. yet forms of religion and believers want to take only what fits their scope and leave out the rest to the voids of gray area and deemed unimportant or ambiguous in nature. Then pointing back at another script and rendering this one as lost.

So now.. as a believer need to witness to them, and try to help them.

Really... what about the scripture that talks directly gay behavior? It is in the bible.. it is part of the scripture.. yet the people practicing the behavior are condemned because yet another part of the bible calls it a sin? Never mind that contradiction.. your doomed!

That has always been my issue with the bible, the Catholic church, heck most any religion I have seen.. not addressing the ambiguous scriptures in the bible yet holding the select parts that they deem as "the word" and running with it as that damning judgment or a pulpit to preach from.

And I use homosexuality out as an example because of the OP.. beyond the 10 commandments really where is it clearly defined what sin is without contradiction? Wait.. cancel that.. even the 10 commandments have contradictions.

Another 'Thy shall not kill'... yet in the bible, in history, in today's world we kill everyday on the word of God.. point to another part of the bible where it is okay to defend oneself.. in war, whom decides the aggressor or defender? Where in the bible does it forgive a president to go to war over a trumped up proof of WMD? Or Oil? Or religion itself? Or revenge for 9/11? Over defending our way of life... is our way of life really the correct way according to the bible?

I have faith that there is a God, even though he has never spoken or communicated directly with me.. but I will be damned if I am going to tell another they are doomed for the pits of hell because of what the believe based on a bible that is full of contradictions transcribed by man and cherry picked by religion that can't admit the contradiction in the good book.

Again.. I believe in God.. and I will be judged accordingly. by him or his appointed... not by another flawed human basing their views on written word but ignoring what they don't want to accept.

I believe, just not in man's created forms of religion and the stigma's that they cast.

Yet I am a hypocrite because I attend church to expand my understanding of the bible.. even though not fully explored there.. because it is too uncomfortable or taboo of some sort.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
VinceLambeauStarr
14 years ago

Interesting topic VLS ... I also have been 'debating' things in my mind about religion in general lately.

My background is mainly a christian upbringing (church on and off) and dated a girl back in highschool/college and attended a jehovas witness church for 1 1/2 years.

Coming to england has been a pretty interesting experience ... recently I had a discussion about a muslim about some things
guy was married and had a wife seemed pretty normal - he said some things that stuck out.
1. that is was good that the towers got hit, 2. I asked him why do muslims pray 5x a day and he said thats just what they do.

I am also living with a jewish friend and observing how he is ...

I also talked with a hindu guy and read a few books on the bagadagita (spelling) and he told me the general gist of the religion etc ... IMO I found inconsistancies with it.

To be honest from my limited understanding of religion and their attempting to do works to be right with a God; I find interesting ...
IMO it seems all of these relgions and many more are based on men; not god. They may say it has come from god; but in essence it always dates back to some men and it starts from there ...

this brings me to the question weather any man has the knowledge to be a greater bringing of life to me then myself ...

When I see various people from various relgions interacting such as a group of muslims talking to each other or my friend talking about how he and his jewish friends are or even hindus speaking with each other; often what I see is the general togetherness that they experience and the common bonds of that particular religion is what brings them together. Know what I mean?
Its not that our relgion is right and this is why we are talking its we share some commonalities and this is why we are sharing together.

So the question does come up for me; is there a god if there is does he really perscribe one religion over another? and how are we to judge what it is and whom is right? ...
oh I also found it funny the movie the invention of lying the part about the 'man in the sky' - and that many people today act in a similar way as that movie.

To be honest I think many peoples decision for believing in god is the alternative ... if there is no god then there is no afterlife and how are we to know the moral guidelines and if there is no god then this is it? ... we are just flesh creatures here for a time then will die?

Look at all sorts of cultures and how they created different things to worship because it gave them hope or peace or a sense of being; something to believe in ... but again what if none of that is true ...

again I feel strange even writing about this since having been brought up christian - but these are my feelings ... and I do not know what is out there and what will happen when we die. And I do not think any MAN on earth does either.
Perhaps I could talk to someone whom has talked to God so he could tell me eh?

food for thought

"Dulak" wrote:



Hey Dules,

You share similar thoughts to mine. I was raised in a somewhat devout Roman Catholic household but it didn't come as a surprise when I "denounced" my religion, I saw it as giving myself a blank canvas and starting from scratch.

My girlfriend/soon to be fiancee is Hindu, and her life is better for it.

The whole concept of trying to justify massive loss of life for a greater good seems RETARDED to me. Your Muslim friend is not someone I personally would talk to, because those 3000+ plus people in the Towers, the 1000's in Israel/Pallestine/Bosnia/Congo all have families, stories, histories. I can never envision the loss of that being justified.

I do not want to offend anybody who has ever served in the forces, heck alot of my family did and still do - but I feel one civillian casualty nullifies the purpose, unless civilian casualty was the purpose or part of it.
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Zero2Cool is my captain.
4PackGirl
14 years ago
great topic. i believe in God. i believe in Heaven & Hell. without these beliefs, my life would literally not be worth living. i don't believe in God because i think i'm gonna get some great 'reward' nor do i think i'm better than those who have their own beliefs. my truest wish is that if you don't believe in God that you do believe in some 'higher power'. sometimes hearing a sermon can speak to my heart & lifts me up in ways that nothing else can. at the same time, church politics have left me cold to attending church regularly. this i find to be extremely sad. for organized religion as a whole.
Tezzy
14 years ago
These conversations can be tough because at any time arguments can flip between being philosophical or academic, but makes for good reading in my book.

Personally I proscribe to Agnostic atheism. I don't personally believe in deities, but yet I can't argue that they don't exist, because we are talking about belief.

Being of scientific mind, I understand how electricity works and can run the numbers, yet I can't actually see electricity, only its affect upon other objects. It can power medical equipment to save lives, yet at the same time be used to torture people tied to a bed frame. Sounds a lot like religion. So it's interesting that I can't take that same view and apply it to religion. I can see and listen to people that have belief and see the affects that belief can have on peoples actions, but yet I don't believe. Go figure.
On top of every beard grows a man.
"The Bears are shell-shocked... and it's breaking my heart."
Cheesey
14 years ago
VLS....there is NOTHING wrong with questioning things. I was that kid too......but then there comes a time where you have to "commit" either way. That's how i feel, at least.
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beast (59m) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (9h) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (13h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (15h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
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