Alcoholism As a Disease· Page 4

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

I think they say once an alcoholic always an alcoholic is because its an everyday battle for the rest of your life to overcome the temptation and addiction.

Once you're a convict, you're always a convict even if you never commit another felony again in your life, you're still a convict.

Once you're not a virgin, you can never go back, even if you don't have sex for 20 years, you're still never going to be a virgin again.

Not sure why the hasty words 'hate to break it to ya' there, but okay. Yes, people change, that doesn't mean they are no longer a recovering alcoholic. You think someone who's an (err was in your view) an alcoholic doesn't fear succumbing to drinking out of control again?

I know quite a few people, family and friends who are recovering alcoholics and are fine with the term, why aren't you? Seriously, what's your beef with it? I bet you view alcoholics as BAD people or losers, don't you? An alcoholic isn't someone who is bad, it's someone who is (this is my opinion) weak between the ears for some reason or another.

Alcoholics are people who have a problem they created unintentionally. I don't buy into the whole alcoholism is hereditary excuse either. Sure, it MAY increase the chances, but it is not the reason. Not in my experience or observations anyhow.

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.

zombieslayer
Registered

14 years ago

#32

I married an alcoholic and I control her drinking like I control her finances. I simply tell her what she can and can't drink. I realize drinking IN MODERATION is good for you, and is one of the best things you can possibly do health wise. Of the people who have lived 115+ years, if I'm not mistaken, all of them drank. No coincidence. Drinking thins your blood and heart disease to this day kills over 50% of first world people.

Same thing with her finances. She was running up big bills. I cut her up her credit cards, took her paychecks, and gave her a cash allowance. This is how much she can spend and she blows it, then she has to wait for the next allowance period (once a week).

Alcoholism can be cured. You can have a Nazi (me), or a 12-step program. I proved the former works. AA has a pretty high success rate so I know people who are strong enough to commit to AA will get something good out of it.

Now back to the original topic, honestly, I know less than anyone else on this thread. I have no idea if it's a disease or it's willpower. All I know is it can be fixed if you put your foot down and don't allow any exceptions whatsoever.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

TwinkieGorilla
Member

14 years ago

#33

AA has a pretty high success rate

"zombieslayer" wrote:

the overwhelming majority of estimates and studies (including their own) put their success rate between 3 and 5%. jus' sayin'.

I agree with Twinkiegorilla.

bozz_2006 wrote:

zombieslayer
Registered

14 years ago

#34

AA has a pretty high success rate

"TwinkieGorilla" wrote:

the overwhelming majority of estimates and studies (including their own) put their success rate between 3 and 5%. jus' sayin'.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Well, won't argue with me as I'm sure you know way better than I do, but I heard it was much higher. Maybe my source was wrong. If so, I take that statement back.

My man Donald Driver

(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#35

AA has a pretty high success rate

"TwinkieGorilla" wrote:

the overwhelming majority of estimates and studies (including their own) put their success rate between 3 and 5%. jus' sayin'.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

Just sayin huh?

Why don't you just say something about the members who are ordered to attend that contribute to the success and failure ratio?
Why don't you just say something about longevity within the AA meetings linked to sobriety?
Why don't you just say something about what defines "success" to YOU or to AA meetings?
Why don't you just say something about recovering alcoholics who attend AA meetings stay sober until they stop attending AA meetings and the effect that has on the ratio?

Just sayin ...

My personal feelings on AA meetings ... sure they might be good for some people. I learned a lot from sitting in on them. Do I think they're worth their time? I don't know, but I do know it is worth trying. The problem I seen was drunks talking about how wasted they got back when this and that happened. I didn't care for that and felt that gave the wrong impression. I felt "you're here to recover, not reminisce about the good ole times". I can see how some claim it's a cult too. I think 12 steps are a good. Notice I didn't say the 12 step program?

If AA meetings focused on doing activities NON alcoholic and avoided discussions about previous binges ... that is obviously good because a lot of people that drink lack hobbies from what I experienced.

Bottom line is no alcoholic is recover that doesn't want to inside. If a group could bring that out for someone to see, great. I don't think AA does that efficiently though.

TwinkieGorilla
Member

14 years ago

#36

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

uh...i'm not quite sure exactly what you're "just sayin" to be honest. everything you mentioned is taken into account as factors in the percentages. is this your way of asking for links? charts? fucking ven diagrams? point is...they are not, nor have they ever been...or will likely ever prove to be...more successful than any other method, or no method at all.

Bottom line is no alcoholic is recover that doesn't want to inside. If a group could bring that out for someone to see, great. I don't think AA does that efficiently though.

and on this we agree, absolutely. a major issue i have with the 12 step programs is that you're simply trading one life-consuming habit for another...and when it comes right down to it? i won't lie. i'd rather be sticking needles in my arms again and live one more incredibly creative and productive year than be stuck sucking down shitty coffee with a bunch of bummed out people 3 or more times a week for the rest of my life. and while that sounds crude...i think people need to be more responsible for their lives and take accountability for their actions. don't look at the things life gives you like it's an on/off switch. anybody can do something too much or not at all. the truly hard part is to live a healthy life without cheating yourself out of happiness, in whatever form that takes.

I agree with Twinkiegorilla.

bozz_2006 wrote:

Formo
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#37

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I said people change.. because they AREN'T a recovering alcoholic. They moved on with their lives. The temptation may still be there, but because their is no longer a dependency on alcohol it can't honestly be called alcoholism. Each person is different, so I'm 100% sure that there are people who are living life long as a recovering alcoholic and fight the urge daily. Like you said, that's just a lack of mental will power.

I know quite a few people, family and friends who are recovering alcoholics and are fine with the term, why aren't you? Seriously, what's your beef with it? I bet you view alcoholics as BAD people or losers, don't you? An alcoholic isn't someone who is bad, it's someone who is (this is my opinion) weak between the ears for some reason or another.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Personally I try to avoid them. It's not my place to judge and I don't.. but that doesn't mean I have to keep them in my company either. My mother is an alcoholic. She moved to Arkansas a handful of years ago and I've only seen her once since she moved. The only time I get a call from her is when she's blasted. Which is something she craves every waking moment. You lost your mother physically because of alcohol, and in very much the same way I've lost mine. I feel alcoholics are very weak kneed people, and because their actions frustrate me, I choose not to associate with them.

Alcoholics are people who have a problem they created unintentionally. I don't buy into the whole alcoholism is hereditary excuse either. Sure, it MAY increase the chances, but it is not the reason. Not in my experience or observations anyhow.

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Bottom line, alcoholics CHOOSE to be what they are. Most don't make that choice consciously but with their choice to drink without any inhibitions.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

Cheesey
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#38

Here's my take, for what it's worth. Why do some want to call it a disease? because it takes away their personal responsibility for their actions. Fact is, it's a choice to drink. But when you call it a "disease", it then makes it possible to lay the blame elsewhere. "I had no choice! it's a DISEASE!" Is the drive to drink stronger in some then others?
ABSOLUTELY!
The same is for smokers, over eaters, and so on.
If you do thinks that cause you to get "sick", then alot of the blame is on your own shoulders.
In the end, you have to WANT help to be helped. I was a teenage drunk. I could have very easily stayed on that path. For about 10 years i didn't touch a drop of alcohol, because once i started drinking, i didn't stop till i was passed out drunk or the bars closed. Now, i matured and can have one or two beers and can stop. I don'.t let it control me. It took time and hard work.
WILLPOWER is what it takes. Alcohol, smoking, over eatting, all are crutches to help us "cope" with problems/stress.
And if you let your guard down, it can come back and bite you in the butt again.
Some have addictive personalities, and these kinds of things can be harder for them to break. B ut it still comes down to choice.
If you don't put the drink up to your mouth, you won't be a drunk.
I'm not saying it's easy. I KNOW it's not. But a person CAN change, if they want to. Some would rather cop out then do the work necessary to "get better".

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#39

Bottom line, alcoholics CHOOSE to be what they are. Most don't make that choice consciously but with their choice to drink without any inhibitions.

"Formo" wrote:

So an aids victim chose to be infected too, right?

Nice to know people say 'im going to be an alcoholic' and that's just how easy it is. There's a alcoholic switch right? Just FLIP it on when you wanna be one and flip it off when ya don't. It's that easy, there's no difficulties in it, none at all. It's 100% pure CHOICE!

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#40

Here's my take, for what it's worth. Why do some want to call it a disease? because it takes away their personal responsibility for their actions.

"Cheesey" wrote:

That's exactly what I was saying earlier, that some want to call it a disease so when they relapse they can bemoan 'whoa is me, i have a disease, the disease made me do it'. I disagree with that.

In the end, you have to WANT help to be helped.

"Cheesey" wrote:

Also, something I said.

I'm not saying it's easy. I KNOW it's not. But a person CAN change, if they want to. Some would rather cop out then do the work necessary to "get better".

"Cheesey" wrote:

Again, something I also said.

Alcoholism is a disabling addictive disorder. It is characterized by compulsive and uncontrolled consumption of alcohol despite its negative effects on the drinker's health, relationships, and social standing. Like other drug addictions, alcoholism is medically defined as a treatable disease.

Let me try to explain it this way for others to see where I'm coming from on my views. You're on a road (life), driving (living life) and you swerve off (have a few drinks at your local bar) ... there's no ditch (dependancy on alcohol) so you can easily get back on the road.

An alcoholic has dug a ditch [some deeper than others] next to the road so when they swerve off, they swerve into the ditch and it becomes immensley difficult for them to get back on the road. Most of them want to get back on the road, but feel the challenge is overwhelming and the easy way out is to stay in the ditch and drink more until their problems go away.

That ditch is always there, it doesn't get filled in by anything and the alcoholic always sees the ditch, almost taunting them when they are driving down the road. The ditch will never go away.

That's where I'm saying and agreeing with the commonly understood statement, once an alcoholic always an alcoholic. That is the context I think alcoholism is a disease, not a disease as an excuse to drink.

There's so much more to it than meets the eye than the simple "choice" of picking up a bottle or not picking up a bottle. That line of thinking is naive and ignornant in my opinion AND understandable, I fully understand an appreciate it. I truly wish the lot of us could get in a room and discuss it because I think I'd learn something and perhaps my experience could shed some new thoughts for others.

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beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁

beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won

Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???

Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

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