Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Some don't believe that alcoholics are suffering from a disease. Are they right? Is it wrong to call alcoholism a disease? I think it depends on how stringent your use of the word 'disease' is.

Here's an article ... I didn't read it yet, but thought I'd share it and felt this could be an interesting topic of discussion.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/aa022697.htm 

One of the difficulties in recognizing alcoholism as a disease is it just plain doesn't seem like one. It doesn't look, sound, smell and it certainly doesn't act like a disease. To make matters worse, generally it denies it exists and resists treatment.

Alcoholism has been recognized for many years by professional medical organizations as a primary, chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence offers a detailed and complete definition of alcoholism, but probably the most simple way to describe it is "a mental obsession that causes a physical compulsion to drink."

Mental obsession? Did you ever wake up in the morning with a song playing over and over in your head? It might have been a commercial jingle you heard on television, or a song from the radio, but it kept playing ... and playing and playing.

Mental Obsession
Remember what that was like? No matter what you did, that silly tune kept on playing. You could try to whistle or sing another song or turn on the radio and listen to another tune, but the one in your head just kept on playing. Think about it. There was something going on in your mind that you didn't put there and, no matter how hard you tried, couldn't get out!

That is an example of a simple mental obsession -- a thought process over which you have no control. Such is the nature of the disease of alcoholism. When the drinking "song" starts playing in the mind of an alcoholic, he is powerless. He didn't put the song there and the only way to get it to stop is to take another drink.

The problem is the alcoholic's mental obsession with alcohol is much more subtle than a song playing in his mind. In fact, he may not even know it's there. All he knows is he suddenly has an urge to take a drink -- a physical compulsion to drink.

Progressive Disease
Compounding the problem is the progressive nature of the disease. In its early stages, taking one or two drinks may be all it takes to get the "song" to stop. But soon it takes six or seven and later maybe ten or twelve. Somewhere down the road the only time the song stops is when he passes out.

The progression of the disease is so subtle and usually takes place over such an extended period of time, that even the alcoholic himself failed to notice the point at which he lost control -- and alcohol took over -- his life.

No wonder denial is an almost universal symptom of the disease. For those who have come to the realization that they do have a problem, help may be as close as the white pages of the telephone directory. But for those who need help and do not want it, intervention may be the only alternative.


UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Here's an article that says Alcoholism is NOT a disease.

Alcoholism is not a Disease 

In 1976, the writer Ivan Illich warned in a book, Limits to Medicine, that 'the medical establishment has become a major threat to health'. At the time, he was dismissed as a maverick, but a quarter of a century later, even the medical establishment is prepared to admit that he may well be right. (Anthony Browne, April 14, 2002, the Observer)

History and science have shown us that the existence of the disease of alcoholism is pure speculation. Just saying its so, doesnt make it true.

Nevertheless, medical professionals and American culture lovingly embraced the disease concept and quickly applied it to every possible deviant behavior from alcohol abuse to compulsive lecturing.

The disease concept was a panacea for many failing medical institutions adding billions to the industry and leading to a prompt evolution of pop-psychology.

Research has shown that alcoholism is a choice, not a disease, and stripping alcohol abusers of their choice, by applying the disease concept, is a threat to the health of the individual.

In a recent Gallup poll, 90% of people surveyed believe that alcoholism is a disease. Most argue that because the American Medical Association (AMA) has proclaimed alcoholism a disease, the idea is without reproach.

But, the fact is that the AMA made this determination in the absence of empirical evidence. After reviewing the history of the decision, it would not be unreasonable to suggest that the AMA has been pursuing its own agenda in the face of evidence negating the validity of alcoholism.

While the AMA has made extraordinary contributions in the mental health field, it is not outside the box. The AMA is a part of the capitalist paradigm that is necessary for our society to function.

The promulgation of the disease concept, in conjunction with AMA approval, has created a multi-billion dollar treatment industry that contributes billions to the health care industry.

But, with their status, mistakes in classifications can and do result in disastrous consequence. While the AMAs classifications for the most part are accurate, the organization is not without error. Since its inception the AMA has made classifications of varying deviant behaviors without scientific research to validate its claims.

And, for whatever reason, the definition of a disease, as set forth by the AMA, is a malleable and all inclusive definition allowing for the inclusion of almost every deviant behavior. As a result, every unwanted behavior can be medicalized and medically treated thereby providing professionals with more patients and more income.

While many advocate for its benefits, the disease concept has proven to be far more damaging to the substance abuser then anyone could have predicted.

Therapists claim the disease concept helps the patient to understand the seriousness of [his/her] problems.

But in reality, this idea has backfired.

The disease concept strips the substance abuser of responsibility. A disease cannot be cured by force of will, therefore, adding the medical label transfers the responsibility from the abuser to others. Inevitably they become unwilling victims, and inevitably they take on that role.

In retrospect then, the disease concept has effectively increased alcoholism and drug abuse. Furthermore, its only benefit has been vast monetary reward for the professionals and governmental agencies responsible for providing recovery services. Specifically, it has not offered a solution for those attempting to stop abusive alcohol and drug use.

Further, it is beyond the grasp of logic for medical professionals to prescribe meeting attendance as a remedy for an incurable medical ailment, not to mention a contradiction to the supposed nature of the problem.

Medical professionals are admittedly incapable of helping drug addicts and alcoholics so they pass the buck. But, because of recidivism rates and treatment failure, the buck is passed right back.

Patients in search of help, pay, on average, over $18,000 (BRI 2003) to attend programs based on principals promulgated by 12 step groups. After an array of varying forms of therapy the patient is released with a prescription for life long attendance to AA or NA meetings.

In treatment and 12 step groups the individual is told that they can only live one day at a time.

Additionally, they are told that they should never be fooled into believing they can be cured, and if they dont attend meetings they will inevitably fall prey to their disease doing push-ups in the parking lot.

The disease, as described by 12 steppers, is all powerful; it is a separate entity and without meetings it will destroy them. But, with some thought one realizes, these ideas are mutually exclusive. To point out the obvious, if someone is powerless they would, by definition, not be able to control themselves, not even one day at a time.

The absurdities do not stop with 12 Step groups; professionals contribute their own set of absurdities. For example, the AMAs definition of alcoholism is: Alcoholism is an illness characterized by preoccupation with alcohol and loss of control over its consumption, such as to lead usually to intoxication if drinking; by chronicity, by progression and by a tendency toward relapse.

It is typically associated with physical disability and impaired emotional, occupational and/or social adjustments as a direct consequence of persistent excessive use (Langone 27).

A natural assumption would be that the classification of a disease requires that characteristics and symptoms can be measured or observed.

While the majority of diseases fit this requirement, substance abuse does not.

The contradiction to these requirements lies within the defined nature of alcoholism. This supposed diseases symptoms are only discovered after the consumption of alcohol. The health risks, dangerous behaviors and repercussions only materialize after the alcohol is consumed and not before.

In comparison, the diagnosis for cancer comes after symptoms surface or cancerous cell are discovered. There are physically visible anomalies that can be measured. This measurement does not exist with alcoholics. The majority of time, the diagnoses of alcoholism is a guess, if indeed such a diagnosis actually exists.

There is little question that a person exposed to carcinogens or radiation will eventually get cancer.

With alcohol it is questionable if a person will become a problem drinker if exposed to alcohol. While cancer is a separate entity of its own within the body that first exists without the knowledge of its host, over consumption of alcohol, a substance consumed by choice, is necessary before a diagnosis can be made.

That is to say that one must choose to create the condition before the condition can be diagnosed.

Furthermore, consider the following taken from CNE Health. From doctors and patients to drug companies and the media, there are relentless pressures to classify any condition as a disease.

Richard Smith, the British Medical Journals editor, wrote: 'Doctors, particularly some specialists, may welcome the boost to status, influence and income that comes when new territory is defined as medical.

International pharmaceutical companies have an apparent interest in medicalising life's problems. Dr Iona Heath, head of ethics at the Royal College of General Practitioners, warns that there could also be clear downsides: 'Alternative approaches - emphasizing the self-limiting or relatively benign natural history of a problem or the importance of personal coping strategies - are played down or ignored.

The disease-mongers gnaw away at our self-confidence. Inappropriate medicalisation carries the dangers of unnecessary labeling, poor treatment decisions, economic waste, as well as the costs that result when resources are diverted from treating or preventing more serious disease. At a deeper level, it may help to feed obsessions with health.(CNE Health)

Then there is the DSM IV criterion for diagnosing alcohol abuse. It also does not include physically measurable symptoms. It only requires social and/or legal problems.

The DSM IV criterion for diagnosing alcohol dependence requires only one physical symptom that is a result of drinking too much, which is alcohol withdrawal.

Following this logic, if a person smokes cigarettes they do not have a problem, but, when they stop smoking and go through nicotine withdrawal, they are then diseased.

Yet, most treatment professionals seem oblivious to these blatant contradictions. (Keep in mind that cigarette smoking is not a disease according to DSM IV, although it causes far more health problems than does the use of alcohol and other drugs combined.)

Sociologist and psychologist have long since been aware of the dangers of medicalising deviant behaviors. Most encourage extreme caution when diagnosing mental illness because of the potential for damage in doing so. People who are labeled usually conform to the standards that the label calls for whether the diagnoses is correct or not. Its dangerous ground that is commonly tread upon by professionals today.

Whats even more disheartening is that a large percentage of diagnoses are not made by doctors, but by unqualified drug counselors.

Treatment and AA are recommended by counselors as a way to nip it in the bud but these recommendations do far more damage to the individual than if they had just been left alone (which will be discussed later).

It should be pointed out that there is a major conflict of interest among drug counselors, a conflict of interest that cannot be ignored. The majority are, themselves, members of 12 step groups and are believers in AA dogma. These non-professional counselors have been manipulated into believing 12-Step propaganda. And, like the AMA, their status allows them to convince patients they need help because they are sick.

The disease concept oozes into every crevice of our society perpetuating harmful misinformation that hurts the very people it was intended to help.

It is a backwards situation where the assumptions of a few were adopted as fact by the medical profession, without evidence, and soon after, accepted by the public. With this said, visiting the history of the disease concept gives us all a better understanding of how and why all of this happened.

It is speculated that the disease concept originated in the 1800's with a fellow by the name of Dr. Benjamin Rush. He believed alcoholics were diseased and used the idea to promote his prohibitionist political platform.

He also believed that dishonesty, political dissention and being of African American decent were diseases as well. The disease concept was used throughout the late 1800s and early 1900s by prohibitionists and those involved in the Temperance Movement to further a political agenda.

Prior to this time, the term alcoholic did not exist. Alcohol was freely consumed but, drunkenness was not tolerated.

Many sociologists contribute its non-existence to the very stigma the disease concept removes. In fact, Despite an ardent search, however, temperance adherents never identified an account of a drunkard before the 1800s who reported that he has lost control of his drinking. (Stanton Peele Diseasing of America pg 37)

Drunkenness was not so much seen as the cause of deviant behavior-in particular crime and violence- as it was construed as a sign that an individual was willing to engage in such behavior. (H.G. Levine, The Good Creature of God and the Demon Rum, in Alcohol and Disinhibitition, eds. R. Room and G. Collins.)

During this period of time social ties and family played a much more influential role in an individuals life. Therefore, deviant behaviors were undesirable and less likely to occur. It was not until industrialization began, when the importance of social ties diminished, that alcoholism became a problem. We now live in a society that encourages binge drinking as a social norm, but at the same time, we live in a society that discourages it.

The recovery communitys adoption of the disease concept began with an early AA member named Marty Mann. Her efforts, combined with a somewhat dubious scientist named E.M. Jellinek, began national acceptance of the disease concept.

It was Jellineks scientific study that opened the door for the medical communities support. E.M. Jellineks study was funded by the efforts of Marty Mann. And, like so many other circumstances involving Jellinek and Marty Mann, the study was bogus if not outright fraudulent.

The surveys he based his conclusions on were from a hand picked group of alcoholics. There were 158 questionnaires handed out and 60 of them were suspiciously not included. His conclusion was based on less than 100 hand picked alcoholics chosen by Marty Mann.

Mrs. Mann, of course, had a personal agenda to remove the stigma about the homeless and dirty alcoholic or bowery drunk in order to gain financial support from the wealthy. By removing the stigma, the problem becomes one of the general population, which would then include the wealthy.

The first step was Jellinek publishing his findings in his book "The Stages of Alcoholism. Later, E.M. Jellinek was asked by Yale University to refute his own findings. He complied. E.M. Jellineks Stages of Alcoholism did not stand up to scientific scrutiny.


Earlier in this century, the validity of the disease concept was often debated in medical circles.

However, in 1956 the American Medical Association (AMA) proclaimed alcoholism an "illness." Then, in 1966, the AMA proclaimed alcoholism a disease.

The decision was wrapped in controversy. Historically, Marty Mann had her hand in much of this and manipulated information and doctors into agreeing with the disease concept. Marty Mann used her position as founder of the NCA (National Counsel for Alcoholism) to promote the disease concept through Jellinek and a somewhat clandestine relationship with the founder of the NIAAA (National Institute for Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse) whose founder worked with Marty Mann during the institutes early development.

The founder of NIAAA (Smithers) was a major contributor to and promoter of the disease concept. It was his money that funded Jellineks work at Yale. Smithers was also responsible for gaining insurance coverage for patients in treatment (hence the 28 day program).

Smithers was certainly not altruistic in his efforts. At that time he had already launched a treatment program for which he was lobbying for insurance payments.

Acceptance by the medical community was the only way this could happen; alcoholism had to be a medical problem in order for medical insurance to pay for programs. We can see the influence of these advances everyday in treatment programs. Today the treatment industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, with insurance paying the lions share of the costs.

While it can be argued that Smitherss efforts played an important role, it was Jellineks study that was such a monumental turning point for the supporters of the disease concept it.

The current disease paradigm was, in part, developed and promulgated by Jellinek and various other partial participants with personal agendas.

Today, Jellineks Stages of the Alcoholic is still widely used to diagnose substance abusers. But, these stages are based on a corrupt study that the author, himself, later refuted. Jellinek not only published a fraudulent study, he defrauded members of his academic community, and apparently lied about his educational background to gain acceptance.

Nonetheless, it was Jellineks Stages of the Alcoholic that led to diagnosing alcoholism as a disease and eventually to the medical acceptance of alcoholism as a disease. Astoundingly, the inception of the current disease and treatment paradigm is based on fraud.

But the misinformation and fraud did not stop with Jellinek, et al. More recently in an attempt to prove a genetic link for alcohol and drug abuse, most studies only provide roundabout evidence of a predisposition, not a cause for alcoholism.

With this said, we should point out that the predisposition can only prove a difference in bodily processes, not a difference in thinking.

'Knowing the sequence of individual genes doesn't tell you anything about the complexities of what life is,' said Dr. Brian Goodwin, a theoretical biologist at Schumacher College in Devon, England, and a member of the Santa Fe Institute in New Mexico.

Goodwin goes on to explain single gene mutations are not accountable for, and cannot explain, complex behaviors. Genes produce proteins they do not guide behaviors. The truth is a predisposition for substance abuse, if it does exist, has no bearing on subsequent behaviors.

Chemical processes do not make a person an alcoholic. The person makes the conscience choice. Altered processing of alcohol in no way determines choice or behaviors. Obsessive drinking is not a reaction to bodily processes, but merely a choice. The amount consumed is determined by the individual not by the body.

Nevertheless, news stories surface every year proclaiming discoveries of the genetic sources of emotional and behavioral problems while ignoring the mountains of evidence that refutes such preposterous assertions.

Genetics is the new panacea for medical professionals. Since 1987 such reports have appeared on the front page of The New York Times in connection with manic-depressive disorder, schizophrenia, homosexuality, drug abuse and alcoholism.

For example, in the early 1990s the Times published a front page story with the headline Alcoholism Gene Found. However, soon after, the Times published a story titled "Scientists Now Doubt They Found Faulty Gene Linked to Mental Illness."

This was not on the front page like the initial story but deep within the paper (Stanton Peele). In the study a genetic marker was found in 69% of 70 cadavers who had died from alcohol related deaths.

But, the cadavers only represented 5% of the American population. According to the study 25% of the population has the "alcoholism gene marker" or genetic predisposition. The actual alcoholic population is 10%. It was then found that only 1/5 of the 25% that have the marker would develop alcoholic drinking that fit the parameters of those involved in the Blum-Noble study. Therefore the results fail to demonstrate any increased vulnerability to alcoholism.

In later articles it was revealed that the genetic marker appears to have little to do with becoming an alcoholic. Not surprising, the AMA supported the faulty findings with limited investigation. The two members of the team who reported the false discovery of the gene were not without bias. Ernest Noble is the former director of the NIAAA and Blum, a Pharmacologist for Texas University, markets his own remedy for the malady in the form of supplements.

Subsequently, a team of three genetics researchers summarized the results of research on the Blum and Noble "alcoholism gene:" excluding results from studies Blum himself conducted, "the frequency of the A1 allele at DRD2 is 0.18 in alcoholics, 0.18 in controls (random population and nonalcoholic), and 0.18 in severe alcoholics.

Blum et al. reported allele frequencies for their alcoholics that are significantly different from the combined allele frequencies reported by a total of seven other groups of investigators for alcoholics (p <.001)." (J Gelernter, D Goldman, N Risch, The A1 allele at the D2 dopamine receptor gene and alcoholism: a reappraisal, JAMA, 1993;269:1676) (Stanton Peele, the Bottle in the Gene)

Looking at the situation objectively, if alcoholism is passed through genes, the abnormality must be relatively new. As stated previously, alcoholism did not exist in the early colonization of America. In fact, it did not exist until the late 1700s.

Some would argue that the residents of the United States are largely immigrants and as a result the alcoholism gene was introduced later in history. Meaning, the new citizens are not of the same family tree as those of the 1700s.

But, its important to point out, many cultures outside of the United States do not even know what alcoholism is; they do not have a word for it. People with different cultural backgrounds do not have different genetic make-ups.

Americas arrogance has led the population to believe that we are scientifically more advanced than other cultures; therefore, we know the truth and they do not. But this is far from true.

In a country where we claim to know the truth, the city of Los Angeles has more addicts than all of Europe. While professionals strive to remove the stigma surrounding alcoholics, they are in essence, removing the social unacceptability of the act. By removing the stigma, they are encouraging this socially unacceptable behavior to continue. We replaced the negative stigma with positive acceptance.

Today the AMA reports that while there is no "alcoholic personality," it does not seem unreasonable to believe that there may be "some combination of personality traits which are contributive to the development of alcoholism.

They assert that emotional immaturity and strong dependency needs are commonly seen in alcoholics.

While researchers work hard to prove the disease concept, sound, and verifiable, repeatedly studies refute the impact of genetic predispositions.

A great deal of evidence, more consistent and extensive than anything yet established by biological research, shows that social categories are the best predictors of drinking problems and alcoholism. For example, in one study of Boston ethnics, Irish Americans were seven times as likely to become alcoholic over a 40-year period as Italian Americans living in the same neighborhoods.

"Research uniformly finds alcoholism to be 3 to 10 times as prevalent among men as among women. Even researchers with a biological orientation acknowledge that group differences of such magnitude cannot be explained by genetic factors; certainly no such genes have been identified. (Peele, Second Thoughts about a Gene for Alcoholism)

Strangely, cultural groups that dont believe they can control their drinking have higher rates of alcoholism than those who believe they can.

The NIAAA (National Institute of Alcoholism and Alcohol Abuse) found that 1 in 4 children in the US have been exposed to a family member who was/is an alcoholic before the age of 18.

In 1974 an estimate was developed by Booz-Allen Hamilton based on the ratio of problem drinkers in the US, and the average number of children a family has.

This method was then applied by the Children of Alcoholics Foundation in 1984, and it is estimated that 6,600,000 adolescents were children of alcoholics (Keep in mind that there are 195,000,000 people in the United States, so the number looks large.

But, in comparison to the overall population it is not). Another estimate, using the 1980 population census, puts the number of COA's (Children of Alcoholics) at 22,000,000.

It has also been found that children exposed to the idea that they will inevitably become alcoholic drinkers should they decide to drink, and those who enter support groups, have lower self-esteem and increased feelings of depression, two characteristics of every substance abuser.

Similar to treatment for substance abusers overall, children entering support groups as a result of familial problems are more likely to develop the same or similar problems themselves.

Furthermore, it has been shown in numerous studies that COAs are only 6% more likely to become problem drinkers. Like the need for a war on drugs, the idea that COAs will inevitably become alcoholics, is pure propaganda. Teaching children they will face inevitable consequence upon the consumption of substances, for many, creates the problem.

It seems that self-proclaimed treatment professionals, blinded by intention, are ignoring the overwhelming evidence that contradicts the very principles they teach. True scientist and medical professionals know, beyond reasonable doubt, the truth about alcoholism and substance abuse.

The rise of pop-psychology has clouded reasonable thought. Self-help groups, treatment therapy, counselors, and groupers are severely damaging the very people they are whole-heartedly trying to help. Twelve-Step dogma and treatment misinformation contradicts empirical evidence and rational thought, in essence, stripping patients and members of inherent and inbred abilities of spontaneous recovery.

While the NCADD (National Counsel on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence), formally the NCA, claims to fight the stigma and the disease of alcoholism and other drug addictions, its happy-go-lucky explanations of alcoholism and its nature are insultingly unsound.

The NIAAA and the NCADD are two adamant supporters of the disease concept and 12 step therapies.

But, as previously stated, they are not altruistic in their efforts. These two organizations fund most of the treatment research that goes on in the United States. And, like Marty Mann, pick and choose those studies that fit the organizations agendas, or they manipulate and reinterpret the outcomes in their own favor. Thus, they receive funding to preserve themselves.

This fact is applicable across the board for all certifying governmental organizations and institutions. In truth, whether intentional or not, its is pure genius,. By filtering the facts, these organizations have created the necessity for themselves. They have created a public perception that they are needed by controlling and manipulating substance abuse information.

It has been estimated that 5.5 million Americans are in need of help for substance abuse issues. In 1988, 10.5 million U.S. residents could be diagnosed with alcohol dependency as set forth by the AMA and DSM IV, and 7.2 million more abused alcohol. Estimates among the general population indicate that 6-12% have substance abuse problems.

The population of substance abusers has slowly increased since the 1930s coinciding with the spread of the disease concept and governmental interference in individual freedoms.

What is interesting is that since the 70s the percentage substance abuse population has increased dramatically, just like the popularity and prevalence of the drug treatment industry. The question is: if the multi-billion dollar war on drugs and the multi-billion dollar treatment industry have been growing, why does the drug problem continue to get worse?

Irrefutable empirical evidence has shown that organizations and institutions who promote, and adhere to, the disease concept, fail when trying to help people with substance abuse problems.

Alcoholics Anonymous has successfully promoted itself as the only hope for alcohol abusers. The public perception is that Alcoholics Anonymous works, but the reality is something completely different.

In 65 years Alcoholics Anonymous has become a part of our social structure. Its tenets have led the medical establishment and been used to diagnose patients with alcoholism while simultaneously giving birth to dozens of spin-off anonymous meetings.

Its most outstanding accomplishment has been successfully promoting a fictitious disease, as fact, and to be absorbed into the very fabric of our society.

But, while Alcoholics Anonymous has accomplished the unthinkable, its accomplishments have damaged the society. Although its intentions are synonymous with help, the organizations lies and manipulations have damaged society as a whole, costing taxpayers billions of dollars and costing families the lives of their loved ones.

In 1990, the Alcoholics Anonymous General Services Office or AA GSO, the governing organization overseeing all autonomous meetings, published an internal memo for the employees of its offices.

It was an analysis of a survey period between 1977 and 1989. The results were in absolute contrast to the public perception of AA. After just one month in the Fellowship, 81% of the new members have already dropped out. After three months, 90% have left, and a full 95% have disappeared inside one year! (Kolenda, 2003, Golden Text Publishing Company)

That means that in under a year, 95% of the people seeking help from AA leave the program. While this only speaks for attendance, it has further implications. AA surveyors do not include dropouts in their sobriety statistics, which is a deceptive, if not outright dishonest, practice.

Using the AA GSO statistics, and including the program dropouts, the success rate of AA, as a whole the total averages of sobriety for the total AA membership become 3.7% for one year [of sobriety], and 2.5% over five years. (Kolenda, 2003, Golden Text Publishing Company) Its important to understand that 95% of all substance abuse treatment centers in the United States are 12 step based programs. Thus, the failures of AA, are also the failures of treatment.

Repeated studies have shown that the average person, who could be diagnosed with a substance abuse problem, will discontinue use on their own 20-30% of the time.

But, those who are exposed to AA and treatment, and who are taught the disease concept, have a drastically decreased chance of achieving sobriety. While treatment professionals are aware of program failure, governing organizations support and promote the adoption of 12 Step tenets into treatment programs for substance abusers.

Families pay tens of thousands of dollars to help their loved ones only to place them in programs that follow guidelines of another failing program. Any program based on a program that fails will inevitably fail. For most, 12 Step has become synonymous with failure.

In contrast, programs that teach control and choice are far more successful than programs that teach the disease concept.

While conventional treatment methods result in a 3% success rate after five years, programs that do not teach the disease concept, and instead teach choice, have success rates of 86% after five and even ten years (Baldwin Research Institute 2003).

In conclusion, after reviewing the available research from both sides of the debate, the belief in the disease of alcoholism, creates the existence of the disease.

Organizations and institutions that promote the disease concept are, in many cases, doing irreparable harm to the individual and performing a disservice to the population as a whole.

Geneticists are aware that a predisposition does not dictate subsequent behavior, and treatment professionals are aware that the programs they offer, fail.

It is an outright injustice when faced with the facts. Stripping human beings of their ability to choose is damaging, whereas giving them back the power of their own volition is essential for recovery. Alcoholism is a choice, not a disease.


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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

on 18 Dec 2009 1:51:45 AM EDT
I am a recovering alcoholic. haven't drank in two years. Never attended an AA meeting, but in fairness, my father (an AA "brainwashee" as some of you might call him), could definitely be called a sponsor.

to me the idea that it is or isn't a disease, does little to reduce personal responsibility.

okay, so if I know that I am sick with cancer, and I can take medicine to get well, do i not bear responsibility to get well to the best of my ability? As a father, husband, member of the workforce, etc., don't i have a duty to those around me to get well? Admitting a problem compels one to action. Or at least it should.

There are cancer patients who don't want to endure the pain of treatment and allow themselves to die. Does this diminish the validity of their disease? Those that get skin cancer from spending their days burning in the hot summer sun bear some responsibility for their cancer. So I guess that's not a disease either, right? I guess we should feel bad for the two pack a day smoker who is on life support, but insult the guy who drinks himself to death.

With alcoholism, the treatment involves making a choice not to drink. This can be difficult. AA functions as a support system, that allows for alcoholics to feel that they are not alone (among other things). This is an integral part of successful treatment given the isolating nature of the affliction.

I'd be willing to bet that those alcoholics who never admit that they have a disease/problem have a much lower rate of sobriety than those that do. Recognizing that there is a problem is really the crux of the issue here. If I have aids, and chose to view it as a "monster", so be it. Why the beef with calling alcohol abuse a disease? It's a rhetorical question. I mean, I get why you all are so angry. I'm a drunk. I used to be angry too.

I guess I was just struck by the tenor of the posts for those on either side of this largely semantic non-issue. I can promise you that there are thousands of people who tried unsuccessfully to quit boozin on their own, only to obtain sobriety from within the non-judgemental doors of AA.

From the sounds of things, a lot of you would do well to drop by for a meeting... drunks or not.

peace, I'm outta here.

"jack " wrote:


UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Count me as saying "amen!" to the third article, the one by "Jack".

I've always thought of "diseases" as something that health professionals of one sort or another can help in the treatment of. By that definition, yes, alcholism is a disease. Professionals can help: in counseling, in prescribing medicines, sharing information about consequences, etc.

I think the problem a lot of people have with some of the "alcoholism-as-a-disease" positions is that they equate disease to "it's not my fault that I'm fucked up. That because of my genes, or my environment, or whatever, I'm just cut out to be an alchoholic."

And that, I'm sorry to say, is just bullshit. Yeah, maybe there is genes at work. Yeah, maybe there are environmental factors that contribute. But in the end, if you have a disease, what you do about it is *your* choice.

Life isn't fair. And life giving you something shitty doesn't remove your personal responsibility for your choices.

To my mind its an insult to all of those people out there with the same "disease" who have found a way to stay sober.

Expecting people to take personal responsibility is not the same as damning all who fall short in there efforts to deal with the demons or the disease or whatever it is. I'm not going to stand here and preach that staying sober is an easy thing for the alcoholic to do. I don't moralize when an acquaintance of mine falls off the wagon again, and I'm not going to moralize when a stranger to me does either.

But I do get bothered when people use "environment" or "genetics" for their failure to strive hard to deal with something.

It's like me and my weight problem. The ultimate person responsible for how hard I try to lose weight and get in shape is me, and no one else. That doesn't change even if it's also my genes or my sedentary job and its stresses or dealing with whatever that leads me to keep my bad habits. They're still my bad habits.

I don't know if alcoholism is a disease or not. But, frankly, I'm with "Jack." It may or may not be a disease. But if you've got it, *you've* got a problem regardless.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I think Rock says it well with.

Alcohol is not a disease, but it isn't a choice, either. It is at first, but it evolves in something much more than that. An alcoholic is far from someone who just chooses to drink. The length they go to get alcohol shows you as much

"Rockmolder" wrote:




This commenet had me thinking ... I try to be as open minded about this as much as possible because of how much pain it's cost me and my family.

cancer, aids = disease. Drinking too much = not a disease

"IronMan" wrote:


We all know and agree no one makes the choice to be an alcoholic, right? I would hope so as that's pretty obvious.

How does one get infected with aids? Aids is a disease, right?

I'm ignorant on Aids, although my uncle has it, I know a little about it compared to alcoholism. I do know you can get it from sharing needs or intercourse with someone who's been infected.

So that means you are not born with it and in fact your choices in whom you share a need with or bodily fluids with dictates you having Aids or not.


How is that different than being an alcoholic? No one picks up that first beer with the goal of having difficulty being able to say no in the future. It's something that happens over time. Similar to getting infected with Aids. Sure, the first few times you have intercourse or share a needle you might not get infected, but the more needles you share and the more intercourse you have, it increases your chances of being infected with aids. That's the same with alcohol. The more you consume, the more you are increasing your chances of becoming dependent on it.

Those of us who can say no to a beer no matter what's going on in our lives or surrounding peer pressure don't understand or appreciate the magnitude of that. I'll admit, I'm one of them.

I can't count the nights I cried myself to sleep saying "GODDDDDDDD why can't she stop drinking!! what am i doing wrong! am i not good enough of a son, am i disappointing her as a father to her granddaughter? do i not love her enough... no one is holding a fucking gun to her head forcing her to drink!!!!! the doctors tell her shes going to die!! why can't see how much shes hurting us by hurting herself?? shes being selfish all she cares about is her and not us!"

I could see it in my mothers eyes she wanted to stop the drinking, she hated what she was doing to herself and to us family members ... but she didn't have the strength to do it. Drinking is what she knew. A life of getting beaten up by guy after guy made her feel like she didn't deserve to live ... so she drank to feel better. If I could have gotten her out of Sturgeon Bay into a better culture, better surrounding group of friends ... she may still be here but I couldn't do enough for someone who didn't want to do it for herself.


Is it a disease? I do not know, I think so, but not in the respect that it gives someone an excuse for their dilemma.

I do wonder how aids is a disease which you get by choices you make ... I don't see how alcoholism is not a disease since it's also the result choices. Aids like alcoholism can not be turned of by a simple choice, once your infected with aids, you're stuck. Once you've become dependent on alcohol, you're an alcoholic.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
I'm not sure why all the conversation on this thread is in the shout. I started to say this there, but then realized I couldn't be shout length.

I think part of the problem that a lot of people have with the "disease" lingo is that some people in fact use it as an excuse.

I think the bigger problem, however, and I think this is part of what was underlying "Jack"'s comment, too, is that the whole "disease or choice" derails our thinking in the wrong direction.

Alcoholism, whatever label you want to put on it, is a complex thing that varies with the individual. Rock's right: its a choice AND something else at the same time, and the realities of both the choice and the something else are very different.

Alcoholism is not something that has "industrial" one-size-fits-all solution. Look at the population of alcoholics and you can find no shortage of excuse-makers; but, at the same time, you see a lot of people who aren't excuse-makers. And, unfortunately, lots of those non-excuse makers can't stay sober either.

And all that's true whether you look at the alcoholics who do the AA thing or those who don't. Its true of the toughest of "tough love" methods, too. I haven't studied this systematically, but I'm betting its true of those using each and every treatment approach.

To my mind, "no excuse-making" is a necessary condition to success, but it is far from sufficient.

I've always liked bars, for a lot of reasons. Some you would expect, but I'm betting one is going to strange: I like going to bars because it can help me see better.

Oh, I know, it's much more common for people to go to bars to get temporarily blind. And I've done that, too, too many times to count. But I also just like hanging out in the places. Because the right kind of bar can be a great place to watch people carefully. And, if, as I've been a number of times over the years, you become a regular, you can often see quite deeply into individuals, their strengths and weaknesses.

And in that bar-stool-sitting, I've met a lot of alcoholics. And, as I reflect on them, none of them the same. Oh, they were the same in the sense that they had a serious "drinking problem". But they're problems weren't the same. Their weaknesses and their strengths were and are different. (And, yes, a strength can distort things in ways that increase the odds of "problem". Alcoholism isn't always about being too weak to say no or whatever.)

Choices have consequences, and none of us are capable of knowing all those consequences ahead of time. And some people are, for whatever reason, more susceptible to some of those consequences than others.

I know for a fact that many close to me wondered if I spent too much time in bars when I was in graduate school. Heck, I wondered from time to time. Eventually, I realized that, no, I was lucky. I wasn't an alcoholic. I made a bunch of unhealthy choices, and I was lucky that they didn't lead to worse consequences.

But I also have known people who didn't drink anything like I have from time to time who indeed became/were alcoholics. I don't know if it was chemical, genetic, environmental stresses, or whatnot. I only know that I never made it as close to the precipice as, perhaps, I deserved, and others, better people than me, fell off the cliff.

One of the reasons I admire most of the AA people I've known is that, despite the 12 step stuff that I find offputting, they seem to be relatively good at breaking down the bullshit barriers and excuse making.

Oh, I've seen AAers that are experts at excuse making and at bullshitting themselves. No shortage of those either. I have no idea whether AA has a success rate of 10 percent or 50 percent or 2 percent. But I do believe the system, 12 steps and all, have helped a lot of people. And, I'm convinced that their successes tend to come because/when they tend to treat each person as an individual.

Sorry to go on at such length. But this is one issue where I find both of the usual positions ("disease", "choice") are both too simplistic to get at the real human problem. The one that Kevin's testimony clearly reveals.

I don't know what to say regarding your mother, Kevin. It would be the height of arrogance to say that I do. I'm not sure any of us really knows the reasons "it" happens to an individual. Why some people stay away from the precipice, why others approach it and find a way to back off, and why still others seem unable to keep from falling off.

The only thing I'm sure of, is that there isn't a simple answer. And that there are a lot of precipices out there.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
4PackGirl
14 years ago
interesting topic. i've lived with this for well over 20 years with my ex. 3 years into our marriage, he went thru inpatient rehab. he never touched a drop for 12 years. we divorced & within a few months, he turned to alcohol again. within a year of choosing to take that drink, he lost everything.

do i think it's a disease? i'm not sure. i do know that he can't help himself. he craves alcohol. when he drinks, he can't drink a couple & then go home, he has to drink a case & even that's not enough. he didn't choose to be an alcoholic but he did choose to take that drink a couple years ago knowing exactly what the ramifications would be. he'd been there, done that most of his life so he absolutely knew what would happen. i hate the alcoholism & what it's done to him. i don't hate him. i hate the choice he made. i've given up on him being a real dad to his kids & have accepted he'll be what he can to them which is a buddy. it breaks my heart but there's nothing i can do about it. all i ever wanted was for the boys to have a great relationship with their dad like i did. i don't ever want him out of their lives so we take him the way we get him, for better or worse.
IronMan
14 years ago
If drinking too much alcohol is the result of having a "disease", then so is eating to much, gambling all your money away, etc.

Why doesn't that guy stop eating? Its going to end up killing him. He has a disease, he can't help it. #sarcasm

I remember a few years ago when Koren Robinson got busted multiple times for dui, my reaction was, "What a dumbass. Why doesn't he just take a cab/limo/whatever."

I was told that I was being insensitive, as he couldn't help it, because he was an alchoholic, and needed help.

Bullshit. He doesn't need help. He needs to call a taxi. *Bangs head on desk*
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago
Sigh.

No one (here at least) has said the person "can't help it."

And some decisions are "simple."

But not all decisions are.

I tend to agree with you on the "get a taxi" point. And I'm all for having the person who "doesn't get a taxi" bear the consequences of his choice.

But if Koren Robinson is an alcoholic (and I say "if" here because I have no idea whether he is or not), then the process whereby he drank until he was in an impaired state may have been more complicated than either you or I might think.

If Koren Robinson is an alcoholic and got behind the wheel while drunk, he has two problems not one. One, the driving part, is dealt with (depending on your belief about punishing drunk drivers) with fines, jail time, revoked licenses, etc. The other, the alcoholism part, is dealt with....well, I dunno.

Not by letting him make excuses. But also not by assuming its a simple thing to overcome.

And, unfortunately for us in society, you aren't going to solve the drunk driving part unless the alcoholism part is taken care of first.

I've known a alcoholics, for example, who drank and drove in part because they couldn't afford to call a taxi to go home from the bar or to go to work. Because, quite literally, they had spent their money on booze.

Call this irreponsible, sure. But it's going to happen unless the underlying whatever is dealt with.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
14 years ago
Drug misuse is not a disease, it is a decision, like the decision to step out in front of a moving car. You would call that not a disease but an error of judgment. -P.K. Dick

;)

I agree with Twinkiegorilla.

bozz_2006 wrote:


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