uffda udfa
8 years ago

You seem to be criticizing the team for trying to get more contribution out of Jones and advocating that instead they should be trying to get nothing out of him.

Trying him out at OLB seems to be a low-risk option. If he doesn't work out at OLB, then cut him.

My expectation is they are unsure if Peppers is coming back and they are trying to cover their bases.

Originally Posted by: macbob 



Ha ha! That is the point...they have to resort to weird things because these guys are NOT what they were supposed to be at the positions they were drafted at. Personally, I'm tired of watching high draft picks on the defensive side fail with such regularity.

What I'm advocating is finding guys who can play and seeing them on the field over trying to get treasure out of trash.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
8 years ago

Ha ha! That is the point...they have to resort to weird things because these guys are NOT what they were supposed to be at the positions they were drafted at. Personally, I'm tired of watching high draft picks on the defensive side fail with such regularity.

What I'm advocating is finding guys who can play and seeing them on the field over trying to get treasure out of trash.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



It was mentioned by at least Capers during the draft press conferences that Jones could play OLB in 3-4. Jones was drafted with this in mind.

In his rookie season in SF playoff game he got like 13 snaps at OLB.

Jones continues to tweak those damn ankles. Moving him outside, reduce the stress on his ankles by reducing the # of times his planted legs get hit from unexpected angles/directions and rolling his ankles when inadvertently stepping on an other guy's foot.

If Jones could just stay healthy, he'd be a force.

"Weird things?" A ton of guys [humm, i guess that's only about 7-8]...truck loads of guys have successfully changed positions, it's not weird at all. do you want a closed-minded staff that says we picked a guy for this and that's it and wont consider anything else?

Next year I want 2 more position changes: Hyde to ILB [ala AZ's Buchanon] and Lacy to Nose Tackle. That 2nd one sounded better in my head, let's make that 1 more change.
uffda udfa
8 years ago
Datone wasn't drafted to be an OLB. He was supposed to be the answer on the DL for the read option. Yes, I understand guys change positions but in Green Bay it's for one of two reasons... 1) The guy isn't good enough to play the position he was initially slated for and they want to give one last ditch effort to see if they can get anything opposed to nothing out of that particular player OR...2) Because there is NOBODY in a certain position so someone else HAS to go over there. See: Clay Matthews.

It's shameful that we have to play Clay Matthews inside because we have NOBODY else to play in there that isn't an absolute liability reducing our overall defense's effectiveness because Clay is playing where he shouldn't be playing. It is also shameful that there are guys who should be able to at least be decent who were high picks that have to be moved to some weird "hybrid" role because they aren't good enough at their singular original role.

Do you not see the problem with this? In moving a garbage guy you're just dumping trash at two positions instead of getting rid of the guy and finding someone who can play the one position he can't and then find another guy for the hybrid part who can play. We're using subpar players to cover spots on our D that should have the focus on actually finding guys who can play each position singularly and play it well.

It's sad.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
8 years ago

Datone wasn't drafted to be an OLB. He was supposed to be the answer on the DL for the read option. Yes, I understand guys change positions but in Green Bay it's for one of two reasons... 1) The guy isn't good enough to play the position he was initially slated for and they want to give one last ditch effort to see if they can get anything opposed to nothing out of that particular player OR...2) Because there is NOBODY in a certain position so someone else HAS to go over there. See: Clay Matthews.

It's shameful that we have to play Clay Matthews inside because we have NOBODY else to play in there that isn't an absolute liability reducing our overall defense's effectiveness because Clay is playing where he shouldn't be playing. It is also shameful that there are guys who should be able to at least be decent who were high picks that have to be moved to some weird "hybrid" role because they aren't good enough at their singular original role.

Do you not see the problem with this? In moving a garbage guy you're just dumping trash at two positions instead of getting rid of the guy and finding someone who can play the one position he can't and then find another guy for the hybrid part who can play. We're using subpar players to cover spots on our D that should have the focus on actually finding guys who can play each position singularly and play it well.

It's sad.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



People that carry rigid unyielding uncompromising myopic absolutes to an inappropriate degree have great difficulty with longstanding employment or relationships.

simile: Person A possesses an uncompromising myopic absolute in his hate for meat. This is reinforced by a moral position that meat is highly inefficient food source in a starving world and causes a number of long term health issues. If a friend, a girlfriend, an employer sits down to eat a burger or sits at a table with another eating a burger or the employer serves burgers in his cafeteria; Person A browbeats and disrespects that friend, girlfriend employer until they come around to Person A's way of thinking. Eventually, the friends says they moved to Alaska, the girlfriend again says she's washing her hair; and the boss says we're downsizing.

You take one sometimes TRUE fact [Your assertion that Jones was drafted only to stop Zone read is not only ridiculous, but 100% FALSE], but blow it up to ridiculous lengths and derive an uncompromising opinion that others must be browbeat into.
Examples: a player ran x at combine-he's slow
The offense was bad in 2015- Mike McCarthy is not an elite offensive mind
Harrell, Sherrod were busts-so is Ted Thompson
When others try to present alternate facts or a fresh perspective on the situation; you metaphorically stick your fingers in your ears and start mumbling "lalalalallalallla" until you see their lips stop moving and then pull out a verbal club of sarcasm, loaded questions, logical errors and ridicule to bludgeon then with until they acquiesce to your idea.

Life in this world nor football is built on a system of absolutes. It is the cap era. If Ted Thompson drafts 4 HOFers every year, he is a bad GM if all others draft 5 or more. See it is RELATIVE! You cant bash Ted Thompson for his drafting/utilization of players UNLESS YOU COMPARE IT TO ALL OTHERS.

We are not "weak" at TE or ILB; because weak or strong is RELATIVE; Richard Rodgers is a tackle breaking machine scoring a TD every time he touches the ball if the defense is 5th graders [okay, you're right, sometimes he will get tackles by a 5th grader].

Let me give you just one example of weak!!!! Before camp bodies were signed to futures contracts Seattle only had 4 OLman under contract: Britt [ranked 2nd worst left guard by PFF]; Gilliam [surely one of the 3-4 worst RTs] and guards Glowinski and Soklia that have not played a game and were 4th and 6th rounders. Barrington, Thomas, Palmer, Bradford and Ryan, and Rodgers, Henry, Perrillo and Backman are 1000x better at their respective positions than that collection of stooges.

Every team has weaknesses, every year. This is not an indictment of the GM, to have less than great players at a position or 2, it is a condition of the NFL world. But it is an indictment of the GM to have disgusting weakness at a critical position like Seattle.

This rigid myopic idea that players are ever drafted for one position or for one purpose is outrageously inept thinking. Drafting is about projecting and chumchum there is nothing absolute about projecting. Jones was a guy who could have gone several ways:
(1) he could have gone full blown Lacey and he'd be a NT; (2) put on a few pounds and became a 3-4 DE; (3) lost a few pounds and became OLB; and (4) played DE in a more traditional 4-3 scheme, which we run alot!

See this is how it would go for you as a GM looking ONLY for the perfect player for the perfect position: [You obviously went 0-16, so your drafting #1] Rnd 1: Andrew Luck; Rnd 2: Pass; Rnd 3: pass; Rnds4-7: Pass.

And every team does what the Packers do with their players...EVERY TEAM. However no other team is as effective at it as Mike McCarthy and TT. The only team close in NE; and if we take away Brady or if we traded, 2000-2007 Favre and Aaron Rodgers for Brady; then you'd see Ted Thompson is a top collector of talent and Mike McCarthy is top curator of it.
nerdmann
8 years ago
I'd take Datone Jones as a 1st rounder over AJ Hawk any day.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
PackerTraxx
8 years ago

Good points Macbob. And last year we heard that moving a college safety to CB was stupid as well; but Randall did quite well didn't he?

It also could be used as a negotiating ploy with Neal, Perry and/or Peppers. It is interesting this is announced at the same time CM3 is said to be going outside.

The move worked out well for Peppers and Neal and I think Jones is much more fluid and athletic than Neal.

It may also be a statement of what we have in Ringo and expected leaps for Boyd and Pennell.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Good points, however, Randall was a college CB playing safety his senior year because it put their best players on the field and the other CBs couldn't play safety nearly as well. I believe that's why Randall is a decent tackler for a rookie CB.


Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
nerdmann
8 years ago
Iirc, part of drafting Datone was to "finally" replace Cullen Jenkins. Fans had been dogging Ted about "letting Jenkins go" since the SB.

I didn't like the pick at the time. He wasn't even on my board, because he was a tweener. But I do like him better now than I did then.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
uffda udfa
8 years ago

People that carry rigid unyielding uncompromising myopic absolutes to an inappropriate degree have great difficulty with longstanding employment or relationships.

simile: Person A possesses an uncompromising myopic absolute in his hate for meat. This is reinforced by a moral position that meat is highly inefficient food source in a starving world and causes a number of long term health issues. If a friend, a girlfriend, an employer sits down to eat a burger or sits at a table with another eating a burger or the employer serves burgers in his cafeteria; Person A browbeats and disrespects that friend, girlfriend employer until they come around to Person A's way of thinking. Eventually, the friends says they moved to Alaska, the girlfriend again says she's washing her hair; and the boss says we're downsizing.

You take one sometimes TRUE fact [Your assertion that Jones was drafted only to stop Zone read is not only ridiculous, but 100% FALSE], but blow it up to ridiculous lengths and derive an uncompromising opinion that others must be browbeat into.
Examples: a player ran x at combine-he's slow
The offense was bad in 2015- Mike McCarthy is not an elite offensive mind
Harrell, Sherrod were busts-so is Ted Thompson

When others try to present alternate facts or a fresh perspective on the situation; you metaphorically stick your fingers in your ears and start mumbling "lalalalallalallla" until you see their lips stop moving and then pull out a verbal club of sarcasm, loaded questions, logical errors and ridicule to bludgeon then with until they acquiesce to your idea.

Life in this world nor football is built on a system of absolutes. It is the cap era. If Ted Thompson drafts 4 HOFers every year, he is a bad GM if all others draft 5 or more. See it is RELATIVE! You cant bash Ted Thompson for his drafting/utilization of players UNLESS YOU COMPARE IT TO ALL OTHERS.

We are not "weak" at TE or ILB; because weak or strong is RELATIVE; Richard Rodgers is a tackle breaking machine scoring a TD every time he touches the ball if the defense is 5th graders [okay, you're right, sometimes he will get tackles by a 5th grader].

Let me give you just one example of weak!!!! Before camp bodies were signed to futures contracts Seattle only had 4 OLman under contract: Britt [ranked 2nd worst left guard by PFF]; Gilliam [surely one of the 3-4 worst RTs] and guards Glowinski and Soklia that have not played a game and were 4th and 6th rounders. Barrington, Thomas, Palmer, Bradford and Ryan, and Rodgers, Henry, Perrillo and Backman are 1000x better at their respective positions than that collection of stooges.

Every team has weaknesses, every year. This is not an indictment of the GM, to have less than great players at a position or 2, it is a condition of the NFL world. But it is an indictment of the GM to have disgusting weakness at a critical position like Seattle.

This rigid myopic idea that players are ever drafted for one position or for one purpose is outrageously inept thinking. Drafting is about projecting and chumchum there is nothing absolute about projecting. Jones was a guy who could have gone several ways:
(1) he could have gone full blown Lacey and he'd be a NT; (2) put on a few pounds and became a 3-4 DE; (3) lost a few pounds and became OLB; and (4) played DE in a more traditional 4-3 scheme, which we run alot!

See this is how it would go for you as a GM looking ONLY for the perfect player for the perfect position: [You obviously went 0-16, so your drafting #1] Rnd 1: Andrew Luck; Rnd 2: Pass; Rnd 3: pass; Rnds4-7: Pass.

And every team does what the Packers do with their players...EVERY TEAM. However no other team is as effective at it as Mike McCarthy and TT. The only team close in NE; and if we take away Brady or if we traded, 2000-2007 Favre and Aaron Rodgers for Brady; then you'd see Ted Thompson is a top collector of talent and Mike McCarthy is top curator of it.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



When it snows, I'll bet you just sit and spin your wheels. 😁

You can fancy nomenclature it up all over the board. The fact is Datone has been another failed 1st round pick.

You can deny all day what he was drafted to do, which he didn't do, and that was to stop read option. He was failed on the DL. You really want to argue that?

Moving him doesn't magically make him a better pick...it merely weakens us at two positions ensuring that neither is properly addressed because we have Datone to "cover them both". That's laughable.

My point is...I'm tired of them moving around guys who weren't good enough at their original positing hoping against hope they're better at the new one. I have no real issue if you want to do this with UDFA's and late rounders but to be experimenting after you drafted them for specific reasons is not bright and we've paid for that and looks like we'll just continue on doing so.

Nerd...I laughed. I couldn't agree more...that doesn't speak to Datone's ability but rather AJ Hawk's total inability. My goodness we've drafted some turds on D up high.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


buckeyepackfan
8 years ago
Not sure why Ted, Mike and Dom do what they do.

All I know is they make our resident online geniuses look like fools time after time.

That's good enough for me!
😂 😂 😂
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
uffda udfa
8 years ago

Not sure why Ted, Mike and Dom do what they do.

All I know is they make our resident online geniuses look like fools time after time.

That's good enough for me!
😂 😂 😂

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



Look like fools? Now, THAT is truly foolish!


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


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