nerdmann
10 years ago

The Stats Lie

Only the 2nd time in NFL history that a game went without a punt.

Packers had seven drives, all of which ended with a score, except the blocked field goal of course.

Packers had the ball for just over 23 minutes.

Packers were out gained on the ground 56 yards to Bears 235 yards.

Bears were 63.6% on 3rd down conversions, Packers were just 50%.

Packers had 21 first downs to the Bears 33.

Packers had 47 plays to Bears 77 plays.


Yet, the Packers crush the Bears 38 to 17. [aiee]

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



That's what turnovers will do. Add in time running out at the end of the half.

Trestman's offense is fundamentally sound. THAT, is what I bitch about all the time with Mike. Mike and Aaron can get away with this stat whoring bullshit, because Aaron is an elite QB. But almost every year in the playoffs, that bullshit comes home to roost.

You do the right thing ALL the time. You play the right way, ALL the time.

Fact is this team has a weakness, and that' the Dline. We all know it, and every week teams all over the league get more and more film of it. We've gotta do something about that. The offense does not appear willing to help the defense by burning clock and keeping them off the field.

We're not gonna be facing bullshit QBs in January.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

Turnovers involve some luck. A stout defensive line that can consistently stop the run doesn't (or at least less luck is involved).

I'm too lazy to look it up, but I don't know that the Packers' SB team allowed many 500+ yard games, and 2011 isn't really a barometer for success because it was the preview to the problem the Packers currently have with teams such as the Seahawks, 49ers, and now maybe even the Lions.

I'm wavering a lot on this defense. Anyone can lay an egg, we saw that with the 49ers at Seattle last November. I certainly don't have much confidence in this defense, but they've been all over the map and I still can't tell if the 2nd half Jets/Detroit defense is what to expect, or if the Bears/Seahawks is more what we should expect with this team.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Absolutely. CM3s pick was luck on his part. I have said it before I have seen corners beaten or out of position get a pick because the QB was so bad they missed the open receiver by 5 feet or more.
UserPostedImage
DoddPower
10 years ago

Absolutely. CM3s pick was luck on his part. I have said it before I have seen corners beaten or out of position get a pick because the QB was so bad they missed the open receiver by 5 feet or more.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



The actual catch may have involved some luck, but the actual reason for the interception, Tramon Williams play on the ball, was not.
dfosterf
10 years ago
We need better defense, specifically, heat on the QB. We all know it, the rest is wishful thinking. We also know we just need to give Aaron just a little time. It has not been a tough equation, in theory. we need to get there in reality.

musccy
10 years ago

The actual catch may have involved some luck, but the actual reason for the interception, Tramon Williams play on the ball, was not.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



Luck may not be the right word. Tramon did make a good play on the ball, but in order for Tramon to make that play, Cutler had to miss that he had inside coverage or throw an errant pass. It's not luck that Cutler threw a bad pass, but we were dependent on his error to enable the opportunity.

I know it's what everyone would say but I want a defense that can contain the edge, play their assignment, get off blocks, clog a gap, etc. not rely on the opponent "shitting themselves" as nerdmann would say.
nerdmann
10 years ago

Luck may not be the right word. Tramon did make a good play on the ball, but in order for Tramon to make that play, Cutler had to miss that he had inside coverage or throw an errant pass. It's not luck that Cutler threw a bad pass, but we were dependent on his error to enable the opportunity.

I know it's what everyone would say but I want a defense that can contain the edge, play their assignment, get off blocks, clog a gap, etc. not rely on the opponent "sh*tting themselves" as nerdmann would say.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Preparation, meeting opportunity.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nerdmann
10 years ago

We need better defense, specifically, heat on the QB. We all know it, the rest is wishful thinking. We also know we just need to give Aaron just a little time. It has not been a tough equation, in theory. we need to get there in reality.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



Specifically, run defense.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
10 years ago

The actual catch may have involved some luck, but the actual reason for the interception, Tramon Williams play on the ball, was not.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



I know that as well as anyone else. Backs do a graet job defending the pass and defect balls all the time. How many tipped/deflected balls are there every week around the NFL? Most fall to the ground. How many tipped balls fly 10-15 yards back towards the LOS that are caught by a LBer? Practically none. The degree of luck on this particular play was over the 75% level.
UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
10 years ago

The Stats Lie

Only the 2nd time in NFL history that a game went without a punt.

Packers had seven drives, all of which ended with a score, except the blocked field goal of course.

Packers had the ball for just over 23 minutes.

Packers were out gained on the ground 56 yards to Bears 235 yards.

Bears were 63.6% on 3rd down conversions, Packers were just 50%.

Packers had 21 first downs to the Bears 33.

Packers had 47 plays to Bears 77 plays.


Yet, the Packers crush the Bears 38 to 17. [aiee]

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


The numbers don't lie. But people's understanding of what correlates to winning is often flawed.

Per play the Packers were much more efficient. They only needed 47 plays to score 38 points. The Bears needed 77 plays to score 17 points. The Packers yards per play meant they didn't need as many plays to move the ball.

Yards and TOP mean nothing if the drives don't end in a score. Every failed drive, you might as well wipe out the yards and TOP.

The Bears failed to score on 5 of 8 drives. 1 on downs, 2 turnovers on first down and a goal line stop at the end of the half and at the end of the game.

The Packers only failed to convert one drive into points. They attempted 3 field goals and had one that was blocked, one that was a first down by penalty and one that was made. They did have a 3rd down converted by defensive penalty. I don't know how you can call that 4 of 8 on 3rd down. I would call it 5 of 8 or at least 4 of 7.

The whole story can be misrepresented by focusing on the wrong stat or trying to make a stat say something it doesn't. Like saying yards and TOP should lead to wins. They didn't lie. Saying they matter is the lie.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
nerdmann
10 years ago

I know that as well as anyone else. Backs do a graet job defending the pass and defect balls all the time. How many tipped/deflected balls are there every week around the NFL? Most fall to the ground. How many tipped balls fly 10-15 yards back towards the LOS that are caught by a LBer? Practically none. The degree of luck on this particular play was over the 75% level.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Those are patented moves, though.

Shields and Williams bait those QBs into those throws, then they close on the ball like that. Remember Bush's lifetime highlight INT in the SB? He saw that on film, and exploited it. That ain't luck.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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