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Mucky Tundra
10 years ago
"Safety is our achilles' heel on D, we need to draft one, we haven't replaced Nick Collins yada yada etc."

Having addressed all the usual chatter that pops up when it comes to the safety position, just HOW good does our safety play need to be this year to contend and win a title?
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texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
When you have Aaron Rodgers, the greatest QB in the league, you can have a LOT of other weaknesses and still "win a title". We could stink at Safety, like we did last year, and if things fell right, still win the Super Bowl.

What we need a Safety for - what we need to shore up various weaknesses on defense in general for - is to become THE dominant team in the NFL. The Packers really are not far from being that.


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joemailman
10 years ago
The Packers certainly need better play at Safety, but they don't necessarily need another Nick Collins to be a very good defense. Last year the Packers safeties were often out of position, did not tackle well, and had 0 INT's. The 0 INT's is I think a reflection that the Packers safeties were not around the ball much when it was in the air. That needs to change.

I think Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. I never felt Jennings was a good player, so letting him go was addition by subtraction. I'm not sure if Richardson has the coverage skills to be anything more than an in-the-box guy in short yardage situations. Maybe Hyde can make the switch. Maybe Ted Thompson will draft someone in the 1st 3 rounds. If they can at least get some consistent play at the Safety position, I think they have the talent level at the other positions to be a top-10 defense.
nerdmann
10 years ago

The Packers certainly need better play at Safety, but they don't necessarily need another Nick Collins to be a very good defense. Last year the Packers safeties were often out of position, did not tackle well, and had 0 INT's. The 0 INT's is I think a reflection that the Packers safeties were not around the ball much when it was in the air. That needs to change.

I think Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. I never felt Jennings was a good player, so letting him go was addition by subtraction. I'm not sure if Richardson has the coverage skills to be anything more than an in-the-box guy in short yardage situations. Maybe Hyde can make the switch. Maybe Ted Thompson will draft someone in the 1st 3 rounds. If they can at least get some consistent play at the Safety position, I think they have the talent level at the other positions to be a top-10 defense.

Originally Posted by: joemailman 



It was glaring, but I see it getting fixed. Hyde can play and Richardson showed promise. Agreed he's mainly been an in the box guy so far. But he'll get his shot.

Ted will also draft at least one guy.

It looks like we'll be getting to the QB quite a bit more this season too. That should help. Our main issue is to... STAY HEALTHY.
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play2win
10 years ago

When you have Aaron Rodgers, the greatest QB in the league, you can have a LOT of other weaknesses and still "win a title". We could stink at Safety, like we did last year, and if things fell right, still win the Super Bowl.

What we need a Safety for - what we need to shore up various weaknesses on defense in general for - is to become THE dominant team in the NFL. The Packers really are not far from being that.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



This is completely absurd. Wow. How many Super Bowls did we win after losing our Pro Bowl Safety Nick Collins?

Do you realize we had Aaron Rodgers, and a LOT of other weaknesses and still DID NOT win a title?

No. We cannot stink at Safety and still win a Super Bowl. Not going to happen.

"THE dominant team in the NFL?" We were quite far removed from that category for the past two and a half seasons. We've maybe had slim chances to advance, tops. Everything has to go close to perfectly for us to again reach the level of -a- dominant team in the NFL.

I'm not saying that it cannot happen, just that there is an awful lot of work left to do before we can consider ourselves a dominant team again. Adding one -or two- top Safeties from this draft should go a very long way towards bringing Green Bay back to a place of prominence in the NFL. Without that we may be cooked, again.

I firmly believe, had we added Jairus Byrd to our roster this offseason we WOULD be in that dominant category. Now, we have to hope rookies can come in a help us to that level of play. That is a tall order, especially when our top S Morgan Burnett has been stinking up the joint:

Didn’t take expected step forward after signing long-term contract last summer. Missed first three games with hamstring injury and didn’t make season debut until Oct. 6. Struggled in coverage at times with no interceptions, and missed 11 tackles. A total of 71.4 percent of passes thrown in his area were completed, compared to 63.2 percent the year before. Rating of opposing QBs was 135.8 for passes thrown in his area, compared to 83.2 in 2012.


http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140111/PKR01/301090497/Packers-2013-grades-Defense 

and...

Morgan Burnett: STATS came up with a category called "Ballhawks," which ranks all defensive players on their total of sacks, interceptions, passes defensed and forced fumbles. Burnett tied for 158th place with five despite playing 82.6% of the snaps. When the Packers signed Burnett on July 15 to an extension averaging $6.19 million they viewed the four-year veteran as the next Nick Collins or Darren Sharper. Based on his play this year, they got someone like Marques Anderson. Burnett's effort and commitment are beyond reproach. He's the best communicator in the back end. He's a more than adequate athlete, has ideal size, runs in the low 4.5s and has roamed wide in the past. Burnett also scored 14 on the Wonderlic, and there remains too much hesitancy in his game. As he pressed to get near the ball, his tackling deteriorated to the point that he led the team with 17 missed tackles. He did lead the safeties in tackles per snap but had just one tackle for loss. He has a $1.5 million roster bonus due March 15. Grade: D-plus.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/defense12-b99180643z1-239782291.html#ixzz2ygD0dtRB 
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joemailman
10 years ago
The Packers can not win the Super Bowl with he type of Safety play they had last year. There are just too many outstanding QB's in the playoffs who will take advantage of that.

That said, if the Packers can shore up the Safety position, I think they're right there. The Packers lost twice to SF last year, but were very close, having a lead in the 4th quarter of both games. Contrast with 2012 when I thought the 49ers were clearly the superior team, with the Packers struggling just to stay close in those games.

The Packers made strides last year. They need to make one more stride this year. Improve the Safety play.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

This is completely absurd. Wow. How many Super Bowls did we win after losing our Pro Bowl Safety Nick Collins?

Do you realize we had Aaron Rodgers, and a LOT of other weaknesses and still DID NOT win a title?

No. We cannot stink at Safety and still win a Super Bowl. Not going to happen.

"THE dominant team in the NFL?" We were quite far removed from that category for the past two and a half seasons. We've maybe had slim chances to advance, tops. Everything has to go close to perfectly for us to again reach the level of -a- dominant team in the NFL.

I'm not saying that it cannot happen, just that there is an awful lot of work left to do before we can consider ourselves a dominant team again. Adding one -or two- top Safeties from this draft should go a very long way towards bringing Green Bay back to a place of prominence in the NFL. Without that we may be cooked, again.

I firmly believe, had we added Jairus Byrd to our roster this offseason we WOULD be in that dominant category. Now, we have to hope rookies can come in a help us to that level of play. That is a tall order, especially when our top S Morgan Burnett has been stinking up the joint:

Originally Posted by: play2win 



hahahahaha that's what you think, huh?

Your last paragraph, which I agree with most of, seems to contradict the rest of what you wrote. I also wish we had signed Jairus Byrd, but if Ted hits it big with a Safety in the draft or if Hyde or whoever steps up, the result is about the same - which is what I call not far from being dominant and you claimed was absurd.

I did say "if things fell right". We lost to possibly the second best team in the league by 3 points without Matthews and a few other key elements, and with some bad luck. As things stand right now, even before the draft, the Packers should be a much-improved team, and arguably the Niners and Seahawks may not be quite as good. I call that approaching dominance.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
play2win
10 years ago

hahahahaha that's what you think, huh?

Your last paragraph, which I agree with most of, seems to contradict the rest of what you wrote. I also wish we had signed Jairus Byrd, but if Ted hits it big with a Safety in the draft or if Hyde or whoever steps up, the result is about the same - which is what I call not far from being dominant and you claimed was absurd.

I did say "if things fell right". We lost to possibly the second best team in the league by 3 points without Matthews and a few other key elements, and with some bad luck. As things stand right now, even before the draft, the Packers should be a much-improved team, and arguably the Niners and Seahawks may not be quite as good. I call that approaching dominance.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



I just don't see how we could stink at Safety like we did last year, as you say, and win it all.

Things don't just fall right when you are devoid of talent at important positions, as opposing teams are as opportunistic as the Packers can be offensively, and will try to exploit those weaknesses endlessly. Two out of the last 3 years we have helped to set NFL records for defensive futility.

The best team in the league was Seattle, and they handed SF their jocks. SF handed us our jocks 4 times in a row, over a two year span. Those are big hurdles when you are talking about GB becoming THE dominant team in the NFL.

Now, let's say Ted Thompson hits it big with 3 defenders in this draft, maybe 4. SS, FS, ILB and DE/NT. Should he happen to realize something remarkable ala the 1981 49ers, where DeBartolo, McVay and Walsh drafted Ronnie Lott at LCB, Eric Wright at RCB and Carlton Williamson at SS, where Lott went on to the Pro Bowl and they together won the SB in their rookie season, and became a dominant team for a very long time, well, that would be extraordinary. That is kind of what we are all hoping Ted is able to pull off this draft.

It would take something along these lines for us to become THE dominant team in the NFL this season.
joemailman
10 years ago
The original question posed in this thread was about how good the Packers Safeties have to be for the Packers to contend and win a title. Not sure what the significance of being THE dominant team is. The last time the Packers won the Super Bowl, they weren't dominant, with a 10-6 record and needing to get in as a wild-card. That team won with guys like Charlie Peprah and Erik Walden as starters, so it's not like every starter has to be rock solid for a team to win a title. They do need competence at the Safety position though. If they can achieve that, plus get guys like Matthews and Hayward back in the lineup they could be pretty formidable.
luigis
10 years ago
I think it should be obvious you are both right.

We might win a SB with Morgan & Clown in the backfield but we'll need more luck and more perfection from the offense.
If we have two great safeties back there then the defense will also create plays taking the pressure off the offense and the need of some luck.

But we already have Rodgers so the interesting thing should be if we would be better with a new Safety, a new DL or a new LB.


Luis
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beast (1h) : I was rooting for the Bears to win and hurt their draft pick status
Zero2Cool (1h) : Forgot there was even a game last night haha
TheKanataThrilla (2h) : That was terrible.
TheKanataThrilla (2h) : Watching that game in its entirety yesterday is proof positive that I am a football addict.
beast (2h) : And horrible time management multiple times... and not being able to score more than 3 points on a team with talent
beast (2h) : Realizing the Bears didn't fix it from the previous week and do the same thing, getting the game to overtime
beast (2h) : They probably are not tanking, but they've absolutely mismanagement some things, such as Vikings seeing the Packers blocked FG and realizing
Zero2Cool (3h) : Crazy of Bears to have that mindset that is
Zero2Cool (3h) : Hail Mary stop away from 5 - 2. Not sure how that flips to tanking. Crazy mindset if true
beast (4h) : I've quietly questioned if Bears are tanking on purpose... they suddenly got a lot worse with some simple concepts like 101 clock management
wpr (6h) : Watching bares fans melt down over how putrid their team is, so enjoyable. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Mucky Tundra (13h) : The Seattle Seahawks defeat the Chicago Bears 6-3. Jason Myers had 6 RBIs for Seattle while Cairo Santos had 3 RBI for Chicago
beast (14h) : Not nessarily, he might of been injured either way. He's playing about 50% of the games the last 4 years
Zero2Cool (21h) : If they'd been more patient with him, he'd be back already. Putting him out there vs Bears caused him to tweak it and here we are.
packerfanoutwest (21h) : well this is his last season with the PAck, book it
beast (22h) : Sounds like no Alexander (again), I'm wondering if his time with the Packers is done
Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.
Mucky Tundra (26-Dec) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
packerfanoutwest (25-Dec) : Feliz Navidad!
Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!
beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
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