Mucky Tundra
10 years ago
"Safety is our achilles' heel on D, we need to draft one, we haven't replaced Nick Collins yada yada etc."

Having addressed all the usual chatter that pops up when it comes to the safety position, just HOW good does our safety play need to be this year to contend and win a title?
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
When you have Aaron Rodgers, the greatest QB in the league, you can have a LOT of other weaknesses and still "win a title". We could stink at Safety, like we did last year, and if things fell right, still win the Super Bowl.

What we need a Safety for - what we need to shore up various weaknesses on defense in general for - is to become THE dominant team in the NFL. The Packers really are not far from being that.


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
joemailman
10 years ago
The Packers certainly need better play at Safety, but they don't necessarily need another Nick Collins to be a very good defense. Last year the Packers safeties were often out of position, did not tackle well, and had 0 INT's. The 0 INT's is I think a reflection that the Packers safeties were not around the ball much when it was in the air. That needs to change.

I think Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. I never felt Jennings was a good player, so letting him go was addition by subtraction. I'm not sure if Richardson has the coverage skills to be anything more than an in-the-box guy in short yardage situations. Maybe Hyde can make the switch. Maybe Ted Thompson will draft someone in the 1st 3 rounds. If they can at least get some consistent play at the Safety position, I think they have the talent level at the other positions to be a top-10 defense.
nerdmann
10 years ago

The Packers certainly need better play at Safety, but they don't necessarily need another Nick Collins to be a very good defense. Last year the Packers safeties were often out of position, did not tackle well, and had 0 INT's. The 0 INT's is I think a reflection that the Packers safeties were not around the ball much when it was in the air. That needs to change.

I think Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. I never felt Jennings was a good player, so letting him go was addition by subtraction. I'm not sure if Richardson has the coverage skills to be anything more than an in-the-box guy in short yardage situations. Maybe Hyde can make the switch. Maybe Ted Thompson will draft someone in the 1st 3 rounds. If they can at least get some consistent play at the Safety position, I think they have the talent level at the other positions to be a top-10 defense.

Originally Posted by: joemailman 



It was glaring, but I see it getting fixed. Hyde can play and Richardson showed promise. Agreed he's mainly been an in the box guy so far. But he'll get his shot.

Ted will also draft at least one guy.

It looks like we'll be getting to the QB quite a bit more this season too. That should help. Our main issue is to... STAY HEALTHY.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
play2win
10 years ago

When you have Aaron Rodgers, the greatest QB in the league, you can have a LOT of other weaknesses and still "win a title". We could stink at Safety, like we did last year, and if things fell right, still win the Super Bowl.

What we need a Safety for - what we need to shore up various weaknesses on defense in general for - is to become THE dominant team in the NFL. The Packers really are not far from being that.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



This is completely absurd. Wow. How many Super Bowls did we win after losing our Pro Bowl Safety Nick Collins?

Do you realize we had Aaron Rodgers, and a LOT of other weaknesses and still DID NOT win a title?

No. We cannot stink at Safety and still win a Super Bowl. Not going to happen.

"THE dominant team in the NFL?" We were quite far removed from that category for the past two and a half seasons. We've maybe had slim chances to advance, tops. Everything has to go close to perfectly for us to again reach the level of -a- dominant team in the NFL.

I'm not saying that it cannot happen, just that there is an awful lot of work left to do before we can consider ourselves a dominant team again. Adding one -or two- top Safeties from this draft should go a very long way towards bringing Green Bay back to a place of prominence in the NFL. Without that we may be cooked, again.

I firmly believe, had we added Jairus Byrd to our roster this offseason we WOULD be in that dominant category. Now, we have to hope rookies can come in a help us to that level of play. That is a tall order, especially when our top S Morgan Burnett has been stinking up the joint:

Didn’t take expected step forward after signing long-term contract last summer. Missed first three games with hamstring injury and didn’t make season debut until Oct. 6. Struggled in coverage at times with no interceptions, and missed 11 tackles. A total of 71.4 percent of passes thrown in his area were completed, compared to 63.2 percent the year before. Rating of opposing QBs was 135.8 for passes thrown in his area, compared to 83.2 in 2012.


http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140111/PKR01/301090497/Packers-2013-grades-Defense 

and...

Morgan Burnett: STATS came up with a category called "Ballhawks," which ranks all defensive players on their total of sacks, interceptions, passes defensed and forced fumbles. Burnett tied for 158th place with five despite playing 82.6% of the snaps. When the Packers signed Burnett on July 15 to an extension averaging $6.19 million they viewed the four-year veteran as the next Nick Collins or Darren Sharper. Based on his play this year, they got someone like Marques Anderson. Burnett's effort and commitment are beyond reproach. He's the best communicator in the back end. He's a more than adequate athlete, has ideal size, runs in the low 4.5s and has roamed wide in the past. Burnett also scored 14 on the Wonderlic, and there remains too much hesitancy in his game. As he pressed to get near the ball, his tackling deteriorated to the point that he led the team with 17 missed tackles. He did lead the safeties in tackles per snap but had just one tackle for loss. He has a $1.5 million roster bonus due March 15. Grade: D-plus.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/defense12-b99180643z1-239782291.html#ixzz2ygD0dtRB 
Follow us: @JournalSentinel on Twitter

joemailman
10 years ago
The Packers can not win the Super Bowl with he type of Safety play they had last year. There are just too many outstanding QB's in the playoffs who will take advantage of that.

That said, if the Packers can shore up the Safety position, I think they're right there. The Packers lost twice to SF last year, but were very close, having a lead in the 4th quarter of both games. Contrast with 2012 when I thought the 49ers were clearly the superior team, with the Packers struggling just to stay close in those games.

The Packers made strides last year. They need to make one more stride this year. Improve the Safety play.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

This is completely absurd. Wow. How many Super Bowls did we win after losing our Pro Bowl Safety Nick Collins?

Do you realize we had Aaron Rodgers, and a LOT of other weaknesses and still DID NOT win a title?

No. We cannot stink at Safety and still win a Super Bowl. Not going to happen.

"THE dominant team in the NFL?" We were quite far removed from that category for the past two and a half seasons. We've maybe had slim chances to advance, tops. Everything has to go close to perfectly for us to again reach the level of -a- dominant team in the NFL.

I'm not saying that it cannot happen, just that there is an awful lot of work left to do before we can consider ourselves a dominant team again. Adding one -or two- top Safeties from this draft should go a very long way towards bringing Green Bay back to a place of prominence in the NFL. Without that we may be cooked, again.

I firmly believe, had we added Jairus Byrd to our roster this offseason we WOULD be in that dominant category. Now, we have to hope rookies can come in a help us to that level of play. That is a tall order, especially when our top S Morgan Burnett has been stinking up the joint:

Originally Posted by: play2win 



hahahahaha that's what you think, huh?

Your last paragraph, which I agree with most of, seems to contradict the rest of what you wrote. I also wish we had signed Jairus Byrd, but if Ted hits it big with a Safety in the draft or if Hyde or whoever steps up, the result is about the same - which is what I call not far from being dominant and you claimed was absurd.

I did say "if things fell right". We lost to possibly the second best team in the league by 3 points without Matthews and a few other key elements, and with some bad luck. As things stand right now, even before the draft, the Packers should be a much-improved team, and arguably the Niners and Seahawks may not be quite as good. I call that approaching dominance.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
play2win
10 years ago

hahahahaha that's what you think, huh?

Your last paragraph, which I agree with most of, seems to contradict the rest of what you wrote. I also wish we had signed Jairus Byrd, but if Ted hits it big with a Safety in the draft or if Hyde or whoever steps up, the result is about the same - which is what I call not far from being dominant and you claimed was absurd.

I did say "if things fell right". We lost to possibly the second best team in the league by 3 points without Matthews and a few other key elements, and with some bad luck. As things stand right now, even before the draft, the Packers should be a much-improved team, and arguably the Niners and Seahawks may not be quite as good. I call that approaching dominance.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



I just don't see how we could stink at Safety like we did last year, as you say, and win it all.

Things don't just fall right when you are devoid of talent at important positions, as opposing teams are as opportunistic as the Packers can be offensively, and will try to exploit those weaknesses endlessly. Two out of the last 3 years we have helped to set NFL records for defensive futility.

The best team in the league was Seattle, and they handed SF their jocks. SF handed us our jocks 4 times in a row, over a two year span. Those are big hurdles when you are talking about GB becoming THE dominant team in the NFL.

Now, let's say Ted Thompson hits it big with 3 defenders in this draft, maybe 4. SS, FS, ILB and DE/NT. Should he happen to realize something remarkable ala the 1981 49ers, where DeBartolo, McVay and Walsh drafted Ronnie Lott at LCB, Eric Wright at RCB and Carlton Williamson at SS, where Lott went on to the Pro Bowl and they together won the SB in their rookie season, and became a dominant team for a very long time, well, that would be extraordinary. That is kind of what we are all hoping Ted is able to pull off this draft.

It would take something along these lines for us to become THE dominant team in the NFL this season.
joemailman
10 years ago
The original question posed in this thread was about how good the Packers Safeties have to be for the Packers to contend and win a title. Not sure what the significance of being THE dominant team is. The last time the Packers won the Super Bowl, they weren't dominant, with a 10-6 record and needing to get in as a wild-card. That team won with guys like Charlie Peprah and Erik Walden as starters, so it's not like every starter has to be rock solid for a team to win a title. They do need competence at the Safety position though. If they can achieve that, plus get guys like Matthews and Hayward back in the lineup they could be pretty formidable.
luigis
10 years ago
I think it should be obvious you are both right.

We might win a SB with Morgan & Clown in the backfield but we'll need more luck and more perfection from the offense.
If we have two great safeties back there then the defense will also create plays taking the pressure off the offense and the need of some luck.

But we already have Rodgers so the interesting thing should be if we would be better with a new Safety, a new DL or a new LB.


Luis
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Mahomes Magic baby! *cough*
TheKanataThrilla (6h) : KC the luckiest team in the league
Zero2Cool (10h) : Frigging host issues for site again
beast (10h) : For the first time in their long history, the Bears fire their head coach mid-season. Which comes after three very close in-division losses.
Zero2Cool (29-Nov) : At the game now. Kampman and Cullen Jenkins are here.
buckeyepackfan (29-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving Packer Fans! Gonna celebrate with some grilled Dolphin later!
buckeyepackfan (29-Nov) : Inactive 23 CB Jaire Alexander 56 LB Edgerrin Cooper 62 OL Jacob Monk 87 WR Romeo Doubs
dhazer (29-Nov) : Just a talking point, do we try and trade Jaire next year to get out from the contract as he can't stay healthy
Zero2Cool (28-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving! About to head to game.
wpr (28-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving
Martha Careful (28-Nov) : Happy Thanksgiving Everybody...Go Packers!!!
Zero2Cool (28-Nov) : That is what a lot of people seem to think. Even though when he was on Giants, he was trash.
Martha Careful (27-Nov) : Brilliant move by Vikings!!! The signing provide great leverage in Darnold negotiations
Mucky Tundra (27-Nov) : Boo!
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Packers have ruled out Jaire Alexander, Edgerrin Cooper, and Romeo Doubs for Thursday's game against the Dolphins.
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Daniel Jones joins Vikings
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Tomorrow high 32° and low 19°
beast (27-Nov) : Thanks Mucky!
Mucky Tundra (27-Nov) : beast, forecast is looking like 27-28 degrees at kickoff, slight chance of snow flurries
Zero2Cool (27-Nov) : Oh? It wasn't on the injury report. That sucks, but it's what is best.
packerfanoutwest (26-Nov) : Doubs is out due to concussion
beast (26-Nov) : What does the weather look like?
Martha Careful (26-Nov) : You can wear long-johns mittens and a hat. We want Hill and their other skill guys FROZEN
Zero2Cool (26-Nov) : I'm not sure I hope for that. I'll be at the game.
Martha Careful (25-Nov) : I hope it is colder than a well-diggers ass on Thanksgiving night.
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : doubt he wants to face the speedsters
beast (25-Nov) : Dolphins offense can be explosive... I wonder if we'll have Alexander back
Zero2Cool (25-Nov) : No Doubs could be issue Thursday
Mucky Tundra (25-Nov) : Bears. Santos. Blocked FG
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Bears. Vikings. OT
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Thems the breaks I guess
Mucky Tundra (24-Nov) : Two players out and Williams had an injury designation this week but Oladapo is a healthy scratch
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : Packers inactives vs 49ers: • CB Jaire Alexander • S Kitan Oladapo • LB Edgerrin Cooper • OL Jacob Monk
TheKanataThrilla (24-Nov) : Aaron Jones with a costly red zone fumble
Zero2Cool (24-Nov) : When we trade Malik for a 1st rounder, we'll need a new QB2.
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : Report: Aaron Rodgers wants to play in 2025, but not for the Jets
beast (23-Nov) : That's what I told the Police officer about my speed when he pulled me over
packerfanoutwest (23-Nov) : NFL told Bears that Packers’ blocked field goal was legal
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : 49ers are underdogs at Packers, ending streak of 36 straight games as favorites
Zero2Cool (22-Nov) : 49ers might be down their QB, DL, TE and LT?
packerfanoutwest (22-Nov) : Jaire Alexander says he has a torn PCL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

17h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

27-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

26-Nov / Featured Content / Martha Careful

26-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

24-Nov / GameDay Threads / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.