Mucky Tundra
10 years ago
"Safety is our achilles' heel on D, we need to draft one, we haven't replaced Nick Collins yada yada etc."

Having addressed all the usual chatter that pops up when it comes to the safety position, just HOW good does our safety play need to be this year to contend and win a title?
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texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
When you have Aaron Rodgers, the greatest QB in the league, you can have a LOT of other weaknesses and still "win a title". We could stink at Safety, like we did last year, and if things fell right, still win the Super Bowl.

What we need a Safety for - what we need to shore up various weaknesses on defense in general for - is to become THE dominant team in the NFL. The Packers really are not far from being that.


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joemailman
10 years ago
The Packers certainly need better play at Safety, but they don't necessarily need another Nick Collins to be a very good defense. Last year the Packers safeties were often out of position, did not tackle well, and had 0 INT's. The 0 INT's is I think a reflection that the Packers safeties were not around the ball much when it was in the air. That needs to change.

I think Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. I never felt Jennings was a good player, so letting him go was addition by subtraction. I'm not sure if Richardson has the coverage skills to be anything more than an in-the-box guy in short yardage situations. Maybe Hyde can make the switch. Maybe Ted Thompson will draft someone in the 1st 3 rounds. If they can at least get some consistent play at the Safety position, I think they have the talent level at the other positions to be a top-10 defense.
nerdmann
10 years ago

The Packers certainly need better play at Safety, but they don't necessarily need another Nick Collins to be a very good defense. Last year the Packers safeties were often out of position, did not tackle well, and had 0 INT's. The 0 INT's is I think a reflection that the Packers safeties were not around the ball much when it was in the air. That needs to change.

I think Burnett is a pretty good player who needs to bounce back from a bad year. I never felt Jennings was a good player, so letting him go was addition by subtraction. I'm not sure if Richardson has the coverage skills to be anything more than an in-the-box guy in short yardage situations. Maybe Hyde can make the switch. Maybe Ted Thompson will draft someone in the 1st 3 rounds. If they can at least get some consistent play at the Safety position, I think they have the talent level at the other positions to be a top-10 defense.

Originally Posted by: joemailman 



It was glaring, but I see it getting fixed. Hyde can play and Richardson showed promise. Agreed he's mainly been an in the box guy so far. But he'll get his shot.

Ted will also draft at least one guy.

It looks like we'll be getting to the QB quite a bit more this season too. That should help. Our main issue is to... STAY HEALTHY.
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play2win
10 years ago

When you have Aaron Rodgers, the greatest QB in the league, you can have a LOT of other weaknesses and still "win a title". We could stink at Safety, like we did last year, and if things fell right, still win the Super Bowl.

What we need a Safety for - what we need to shore up various weaknesses on defense in general for - is to become THE dominant team in the NFL. The Packers really are not far from being that.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



This is completely absurd. Wow. How many Super Bowls did we win after losing our Pro Bowl Safety Nick Collins?

Do you realize we had Aaron Rodgers, and a LOT of other weaknesses and still DID NOT win a title?

No. We cannot stink at Safety and still win a Super Bowl. Not going to happen.

"THE dominant team in the NFL?" We were quite far removed from that category for the past two and a half seasons. We've maybe had slim chances to advance, tops. Everything has to go close to perfectly for us to again reach the level of -a- dominant team in the NFL.

I'm not saying that it cannot happen, just that there is an awful lot of work left to do before we can consider ourselves a dominant team again. Adding one -or two- top Safeties from this draft should go a very long way towards bringing Green Bay back to a place of prominence in the NFL. Without that we may be cooked, again.

I firmly believe, had we added Jairus Byrd to our roster this offseason we WOULD be in that dominant category. Now, we have to hope rookies can come in a help us to that level of play. That is a tall order, especially when our top S Morgan Burnett has been stinking up the joint:

Didn’t take expected step forward after signing long-term contract last summer. Missed first three games with hamstring injury and didn’t make season debut until Oct. 6. Struggled in coverage at times with no interceptions, and missed 11 tackles. A total of 71.4 percent of passes thrown in his area were completed, compared to 63.2 percent the year before. Rating of opposing QBs was 135.8 for passes thrown in his area, compared to 83.2 in 2012.


http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140111/PKR01/301090497/Packers-2013-grades-Defense 

and...

Morgan Burnett: STATS came up with a category called "Ballhawks," which ranks all defensive players on their total of sacks, interceptions, passes defensed and forced fumbles. Burnett tied for 158th place with five despite playing 82.6% of the snaps. When the Packers signed Burnett on July 15 to an extension averaging $6.19 million they viewed the four-year veteran as the next Nick Collins or Darren Sharper. Based on his play this year, they got someone like Marques Anderson. Burnett's effort and commitment are beyond reproach. He's the best communicator in the back end. He's a more than adequate athlete, has ideal size, runs in the low 4.5s and has roamed wide in the past. Burnett also scored 14 on the Wonderlic, and there remains too much hesitancy in his game. As he pressed to get near the ball, his tackling deteriorated to the point that he led the team with 17 missed tackles. He did lead the safeties in tackles per snap but had just one tackle for loss. He has a $1.5 million roster bonus due March 15. Grade: D-plus.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/defense12-b99180643z1-239782291.html#ixzz2ygD0dtRB 
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joemailman
10 years ago
The Packers can not win the Super Bowl with he type of Safety play they had last year. There are just too many outstanding QB's in the playoffs who will take advantage of that.

That said, if the Packers can shore up the Safety position, I think they're right there. The Packers lost twice to SF last year, but were very close, having a lead in the 4th quarter of both games. Contrast with 2012 when I thought the 49ers were clearly the superior team, with the Packers struggling just to stay close in those games.

The Packers made strides last year. They need to make one more stride this year. Improve the Safety play.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

This is completely absurd. Wow. How many Super Bowls did we win after losing our Pro Bowl Safety Nick Collins?

Do you realize we had Aaron Rodgers, and a LOT of other weaknesses and still DID NOT win a title?

No. We cannot stink at Safety and still win a Super Bowl. Not going to happen.

"THE dominant team in the NFL?" We were quite far removed from that category for the past two and a half seasons. We've maybe had slim chances to advance, tops. Everything has to go close to perfectly for us to again reach the level of -a- dominant team in the NFL.

I'm not saying that it cannot happen, just that there is an awful lot of work left to do before we can consider ourselves a dominant team again. Adding one -or two- top Safeties from this draft should go a very long way towards bringing Green Bay back to a place of prominence in the NFL. Without that we may be cooked, again.

I firmly believe, had we added Jairus Byrd to our roster this offseason we WOULD be in that dominant category. Now, we have to hope rookies can come in a help us to that level of play. That is a tall order, especially when our top S Morgan Burnett has been stinking up the joint:

Originally Posted by: play2win 



hahahahaha that's what you think, huh?

Your last paragraph, which I agree with most of, seems to contradict the rest of what you wrote. I also wish we had signed Jairus Byrd, but if Ted hits it big with a Safety in the draft or if Hyde or whoever steps up, the result is about the same - which is what I call not far from being dominant and you claimed was absurd.

I did say "if things fell right". We lost to possibly the second best team in the league by 3 points without Matthews and a few other key elements, and with some bad luck. As things stand right now, even before the draft, the Packers should be a much-improved team, and arguably the Niners and Seahawks may not be quite as good. I call that approaching dominance.
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play2win
10 years ago

hahahahaha that's what you think, huh?

Your last paragraph, which I agree with most of, seems to contradict the rest of what you wrote. I also wish we had signed Jairus Byrd, but if Ted hits it big with a Safety in the draft or if Hyde or whoever steps up, the result is about the same - which is what I call not far from being dominant and you claimed was absurd.

I did say "if things fell right". We lost to possibly the second best team in the league by 3 points without Matthews and a few other key elements, and with some bad luck. As things stand right now, even before the draft, the Packers should be a much-improved team, and arguably the Niners and Seahawks may not be quite as good. I call that approaching dominance.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



I just don't see how we could stink at Safety like we did last year, as you say, and win it all.

Things don't just fall right when you are devoid of talent at important positions, as opposing teams are as opportunistic as the Packers can be offensively, and will try to exploit those weaknesses endlessly. Two out of the last 3 years we have helped to set NFL records for defensive futility.

The best team in the league was Seattle, and they handed SF their jocks. SF handed us our jocks 4 times in a row, over a two year span. Those are big hurdles when you are talking about GB becoming THE dominant team in the NFL.

Now, let's say Ted Thompson hits it big with 3 defenders in this draft, maybe 4. SS, FS, ILB and DE/NT. Should he happen to realize something remarkable ala the 1981 49ers, where DeBartolo, McVay and Walsh drafted Ronnie Lott at LCB, Eric Wright at RCB and Carlton Williamson at SS, where Lott went on to the Pro Bowl and they together won the SB in their rookie season, and became a dominant team for a very long time, well, that would be extraordinary. That is kind of what we are all hoping Ted is able to pull off this draft.

It would take something along these lines for us to become THE dominant team in the NFL this season.
joemailman
10 years ago
The original question posed in this thread was about how good the Packers Safeties have to be for the Packers to contend and win a title. Not sure what the significance of being THE dominant team is. The last time the Packers won the Super Bowl, they weren't dominant, with a 10-6 record and needing to get in as a wild-card. That team won with guys like Charlie Peprah and Erik Walden as starters, so it's not like every starter has to be rock solid for a team to win a title. They do need competence at the Safety position though. If they can achieve that, plus get guys like Matthews and Hayward back in the lineup they could be pretty formidable.
luigis
10 years ago
I think it should be obvious you are both right.

We might win a SB with Morgan & Clown in the backfield but we'll need more luck and more perfection from the offense.
If we have two great safeties back there then the defense will also create plays taking the pressure off the offense and the need of some luck.

But we already have Rodgers so the interesting thing should be if we would be better with a new Safety, a new DL or a new LB.


Luis
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Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
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packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
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Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
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packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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