Stevetarded
13 years ago

Players know how much their teammates make. I can't imagine Desmond Bishop appreciating that Hawk (a second stringer) makes more than him, especially if he leads the team in tackles. There are so many variables that goes into the 53-man roster. In Hawk's case, I think you cut your losses if Smith beats him for the starting job. Maybe you try to trade him before cut down day. I can't justify hanging onto him at his salary unless he's a starter.

Originally Posted by: porky88 



The team is on the hook for almost all of his salary even if they cut him. So you either pay him that much to be your back up or you pay him that much to play for someone else.
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beast
13 years ago
I don't think anyone will beat out Hawk before the start of the season... but maybe by the end of the season. Might be interesting IF Hawk get beat out of the starting spot and another team needs an ILB if they'd trade him for the future cap space which would be nice to have.
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Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

I said it, I like Nick Barnett and have since the day he was drafted. Remember when he was at someones house and fell into a metal fence giving him a black eye before he even donned a Packers uniform?

It's also convenient to say you want that proven to you because so many websites have the stat "point of contact" and "point of tackle" so you can measure it up against others, lol.

I'm probably guilty of holding to high of a standard on middle/inside linebackers. The games I've seen Ray Lewis play, he seems to always knock the guy backward or they are tackled quick. Nick Barnett it seems he's out of position, not shedding blocks and gets guys from behind while they have momentum going forward and they drag him a bit. I want linebackers to make the contact, not react to it.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



It wasn't my point to start with, I don't really want to take responsibility for backing up the argument.

I also feel it is fair to request that someone making an argument back it up. If they want to make the argument, they should do the work to show the numbers. In place of numbers, I see a lot of "seems like" and "looks like".

I would do the work if I was making the point.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

It wasn't my point to start with, I don't really want to take responsibility for backing up the argument.

I also feel it is fair to request that someone making an argument back it up. If they want to make the argument, they should do the work to show the numbers. In place of numbers, I see a lot of "seems like" and "looks like".

I would do the work if I was making the point.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



What if it's not a point, but rather an opinion? How would you do the work to prove the opinion as a point?
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Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago
Antipathy and an absence of empirical evidence will lead to more flawed conclusions than the numbers would.

But I do agree, that numbers are not like reading english. What they mean is more important than what they say.

Which is the difference between an actuary and a fact checker.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
porky88
13 years ago

The team is on the hook for almost all of his salary even if they cut him. So you either pay him that much to be your back up or you pay him that much to play for someone else.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 


The latter is the right course of action. You don't just keep him for the hell of it. If he's not good enough to contribute as a starter, then I don't know how you justify keeping him. I much rather keep a developmental ILB than A.J. Hawk, at this point. The current ILBs are Des Bishop, D.J. Smith, Robert Francois, Terrell Manning, Brad Jones, and Hawk. I'm keeping the younger players that will play better on special teams (Francois and Manning) over Hawk. Not to mention the point of my first post. It's not going to sit well with Bishop if he's making less money than Hawk. He's starting and making the defensive calls, while Hawk warms the bench. That's a bad message to send, in my opinion.
Stevetarded
13 years ago

The latter is the right course of action. You don't just keep him for the hell of it. If he's not good enough to contribute as a starter, then I don't know how you justify keeping him. I much rather keep a developmental ILB than A.J. Hawk, at this point. The current ILBs are Des Bishop, D.J. Smith, Robert Francois, Terrell Manning, Brad Jones, and Hawk. I'm keeping the younger players that will play better on special teams (Francois and Manning) over Hawk. Not to mention the point of my first post. It's not going to sit well with Bishop if he's making less money than Hawk. He's starting and making the defensive calls, while Hawk warms the bench. That's a bad message to send, in my opinion.

Originally Posted by: porky88 



You have no idea how Bishop will feel unless you personally know him pretty well. All indications that I've seen at this point are that Hawk is pretty well liked by his teammates. In my opinion you are grossly overstating the potential negative effect keeping him would have on Bishop's happiness and even the effect Bishop being somewhat irked would have on the overall team. Either way keeping Hawk isn't just "for the hell of it" you've already paid the man so money has zero to do with the decision. Say a LB or maybe both goes down for a significant period of time you have Brad Jones, Francois, and a rookie or you have a player who knows the D inside and out and has been a starter for like 7 years.

I think you have it backwards instead of "you don't just keep him for the hell of it" it's more like "you don't just cut him for the hell of it"
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buckeyepackfan
13 years ago

Barnett seemed to have a much better 2011 than Hawk did. Barnett had 3 INTs, one TD, 78 tackles, one forced fumble, and 3 sacks vs Hawk's 1.5 sacks, zero INTs, and 57 tackles.

I have no idea if Buffalo is 3-4 or 4-3 though.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



Not sure where you took your info. from but I took this off of Packers.com

A.J. Hawk.........2011....84 tackles.............53solo...31assist..1.5 sacks....0 ff

for the record in 2010...111 tackles(led team)...72solo...39assist....5 sacks....0 ff

Try to remember that Hawk sat out 2 games late in 2011, the first time in his career he has missed a start.

This is just me defending Hawk since he is a former Buckeye, don't know why Ted drafted him in the first place, and sure don't know why he kept him instead of Barnett?

Just another Ted Thompson Fuck up!!!!! Hell a double Fuck up, not only did he waste a 1st rnd draft pick, he turned right around and resigned Hawk when he had a chance to get his ass out of GreenBay.

🐓 🐓 🐓 🐓
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
A.J. Hawk is what he was billed as ... someone who has a low ceiling, meaning what you see is what you get. Someone who is a solid player, but won't ever be a superstar. Was that the right pick at 5th overall? As mentioned earlier, Hawk was kept over Barnett most likely because he's more likely to finish a season on the field not IR like Barnetts two of three last seasons with the Packers.
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porky88
13 years ago

You have no idea how Bishop will feel unless you personally know him pretty well. All indications that I've seen at this point are that Hawk is pretty well liked by his teammates. In my opinion you are grossly overstating the potential negative effect keeping him would have on Bishop's happiness and even the effect Bishop being somewhat irked would have on the overall team. Either way keeping Hawk isn't just "for the hell of it" you've already paid the man so money has zero to do with the decision. Say a LB or maybe both goes down for a significant period of time you have Brad Jones, Francois, and a rookie or you have a player who knows the D inside and out and has been a starter for like 7 years.

I think you have it backwards instead of "you don't just keep him for the hell of it" it's more like "you don't just cut him for the hell of it"

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 


Perhaps it won't bother Bishop. That makes him unique in comparisons to every single person out there. This is their profession. I never met somebody that is cool with their co-worker working under them, but making more money in the process.

Regardless, think of the leverage this gives Bishop or D.J. Smith in future contract negotiations. The Packers paid Hawk X amount of money to sit the bench. How much should a starter that leads the team in tackles earn? It’s not how Bishop feels toward Hawk. I don't think he'd feel anything negative toward him. Anybody in Hawk's position would take the money, not to mention the Packers did the contract. It's their fault. However, that doesn't mean Hawk's contract and the decision Green Bay makes with him wouldn't play into future business.

For the record, I'd take Francois over Hawk based on last season. Hawk could have a hell of a camp, though. That would solve many problems, but it's not as simple as keeping the five or six best ILBs. There's a business side to this as well and a ton of variables go into that.
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