Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

Perhaps it won't bother Bishop. That makes him unique in comparisons to every single person out there. This is their profession. I never met somebody that is cool with their co-worker working under them, but making more money in the process.

Regardless, think of the leverage this gives Bishop or D.J. Smith in future contract negotiations. The Packers paid Hawk X amount of money to sit the bench. How much should a starter that leads the team in tackles earn? It’s not how Bishop feels toward Hawk. I don't think he'd feel anything negative toward him. Anybody in Hawk's position would take the money, not to mention the Packers did the contract. It's their fault. However, that doesn't mean Hawk's contract and the decision Green Bay makes with him wouldn't play into future business.

For the record, I'd take Francois over Hawk based on last season. Hawk could have a hell of a camp, though. That would solve many problems, but it's not as simple as keeping the five or six best ILBs. There's a business side to this as well and a ton of variables go into that.

Originally Posted by: porky88 



I would still start Hawk over Bishop.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago
This has been a great conversation. But I am tired. I will pick this up tomorrow. Thanks and happy fathers day.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Zero2Cool
12 years ago
Seems each time the drops in that game are referenced, it goes up. Watching the game, it was six and now we're up to eight lol.
UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

Seems each time the drops in that game are referenced, it goes up. Watching the game, it was six and now we're up to eight lol.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



When I first heard the number it was 8. I guess a couple could be debatable. I have also heard 7.

How do we decide?
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

When I first heard the number it was 8. I guess a couple could be debatable. I have also heard 7.

How do we decide?

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



lol no clue man, I just find it funny. I honestly don't know the amount of drops.
UserPostedImage
zombieslayer
12 years ago
When we discuss it amongst ourselves, it's 7 or 8. When we discuss it with Giants fans, it's 12. "We would have slaughtered you guys if it wasn't for our 12 drops."
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
reachbryanh
12 years ago
Sounds like you guys are looking for some coverage data. I admit, it probably should have been in the story as well.

2011 Coverage grades: Hawk +1.7, Bishop -2.1 and Smith -0.4 For Bishop and Hawk, that's good for 14th and 32nd respectively among top 50 ILB and MLBs in snaps.
2010 Coverage grades: Hawk +5.6, Bishop +4.7

On a game by game basis, our grades show Hawk was up and down in coverage. Good games (@CHI, STL, DET) and poor (NO, @SD, @KC and against NYG in playoffs)
Bishop had 2 poor games (CHI, @ATL) and no particularily good games. Smith was pretty bad @NYG and really good against OAK.

More 2011 stats:
Hawk 64.3 comp %, 1 TD, 0 INT, 4 PD, 90.6 NFL rating
Smith 76.2 comp %, 0 TD, 1 INT, 0 PD, 75.5 NFL rating
Bishop 78.7 comp %, 2 TD, 0 INT, 3 PD, 117.2 NFL rating

PFF signature stats for coverage.
Coverage snaps/target = Hawk 9.6 (13th), Smith 5.3, Bishop 7.2 (38th)
Coverage snaps/reception allowed = Hawk 15.1 (7th), Smith 6.9, Bishop 8.7 (46th)
Yards allowed per coverage snap = Hawk 0.67 (4th), Smith 1.35, Bishop 1.38 (48th)

What these signature stats don't take into account, is how a player is used in the scheme. For example, when the Packers were caught with out enough DBs to cover the slot, it was Bishop who moved out on either the tight end or even WR which likely meant longer pass routes. The large disparity in coverage snaps per reception allowed could be explained by the fact that just because Hawk was dropping into coverage, didn't mean he had a pass route to cover (i.e. in man defense, if the RB stays into pass block) so that would reduce the number targets. The signature stats can help give you a picture of things, but coverage grades give the best idea of actual performance in coverage.

Bryan Hall - Pro Football Focus
buckeyepackfan
12 years ago
Damn, can the season just get here, THE ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS IS THAT W-L STAT.

Packers were pretty good in 2011.

I know everyone is starved for football, and it's real easy playing Monday morning GM.

Bottom line is until some of you realize that THIS IS A TEAM GAME, you will continue to over-analyze every game, every play, every player.

The one thing I have never understood is how some of you root AGAINST certain players on YOUR team.

I know everyone has their favorites, but to blatantly rip on a guy just because, IN YOUR OPINION, isn't playing up to his draft position, or isn't earning his contract is total bullshit.

Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy decide who is or isn't going to be on the team, I say it every year, this year I'm gonna say it a little early.

Whoever ends up on the final roster, I would hope you as a Packer fan will back those players.

I know I'm just talking to myself here, but I gotta try.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
DoddPower
12 years ago

Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy decide who is or isn't going to be on the team, I say it every year, this year I'm gonna say it a little early.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



Ahhhh, so THAT'S how it works!! I'm glad you cleared that up for me because for a second, I thought we here at Packer's Home decided who makes the Packer's roster. DAMMIT! Now I'm bummed.

Also, I guess there's no reason to discuss anything then, since you know, we aren't making roster decisions anymore. I must ask, though, what is the purpose of NFL Forums if not to discuss such things (among many other topics)? 😞 😞
buckeyepackfan
12 years ago

Ahhhh, so THAT'S how it works!! I'm glad you cleared that up for me because for a second, I thought we here at Packer's Home decided who makes the Packer's roster. DAMMIT! Now I'm bummed.

Also, I guess there's no reason to discuss anything then, since you know, we aren't making roster decisions anymore. I must ask, though, what is the purpose of NFL Forums if not to discuss such things (among many other topics)? 😞 😞

Originally Posted by: doddpower 



It's not the discussions that bother me,you can discuss till your blue in the face, it's the BLATANT hating some of you have against cetain players.

Players that have been deemed by Ted Thompsaon and Mike McCarthy as good enough to play for The Packers.

Over analyze all you want.


I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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