zombieslayer
12 years ago

Barnett missed a lot of games during his last three seasons as a Packer. He played in something like 29 out of a possible 48. I liked Barnett, but he was another grab an drag tackler who seemed to be getting fragile. I think Hawk was the better choice over Barnett.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Understood about the injury thing.

This is another case where hindsight's 20/20. Barnett ended up playing the full season for the Bills and had a better year than Hawk.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
PackerTraxx
12 years ago

Barnett missed a lot of games during his last three seasons as a Packer. He played in something like 29 out of a possible 48. I liked Barnett, but he was another grab an drag tackler who seemed to be getting fragile. I think Hawk was the better choice over Barnett.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



This is why I was never a big Barnett fan. He was great at making sure the back didn't gain 10 yards, but he seldom stopped them from gaining 5.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
buckeyepackfan
12 years ago

I'm too fricken tired to rattle your cage today Buckeye, so I'll let this one slide.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



😂 🤐 😂
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
nerdmann
12 years ago
Demovsky 

“Watching film I felt like I got stuck on blocks a little too much,” Hawk said Thursday after the team’s mandatory minicamp concluded. “When I was able to blitz, a lot of times I’m blitzing up the middle or going against a center or a guard, and I feel like I got Velcroed or stuck to them a little too much. So I’ve focused on working on my hands and getting off (blocks) and get to the ball more.”


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

This is why I was never a big Barnett fan. He was great at making sure the back didn't gain 10 yards, but he seldom stopped them from gaining 5.

Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx 



One of these days someone is going to have to prove that to me. I have seen that argument quite a few times, but nobody has anything concrete to back it up besides opinion. Since it tends to be people who already didn't like Barnett, I am thinking the eye test won't be unbiased.

I made some attempt to see how many yards down field Barnett made his tackles on running plays, I had nothing to compare it too, but it didn't look that bad. Certainly not 5 yards per carry. Barnett had the most tackles on the team but a wide margin most years, if he was consistently failing to make stops, the Packers yard per carry allowed would have been worse.

In the last 3 years Barnett was a starter the whole year, the Packers YPC allowed on D was 4.1 in '06, 3.9 in '07 and 3.6 in '09.

When he wasn't in for most of the year the D allowed 4.6 and 4.7 ypc in '08 and '10.

If Barnett was getting carried 5 yards, he was initiating contact over a yard before the line of scrimmage consistently.

Now I thought Barnett was a tool as much as anybody else. But if anybody knows me, they know I want to see the numbers. To me, the accusation that Barnett couldn't make a tackle and using the eye test as evidence makes me trust that measure of a player even less. And I don't trust it in the slightest already.

Basically I am saying, until you show me, I don't believe it.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
porky88
12 years ago

Even if Hawk manged to get knocked down to 2nd string there is no point in cutting him. You are still on the hook for almost all of his salary and he's a great teammate/locker room guy and would be a great back up as long as he didn't get too disgruntled about it. Either way the fact that they like DJ Smith that much is great news.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 


Players know how much their teammates make. I can't imagine Desmond Bishop appreciating that Hawk (a second stringer) makes more than him, especially if he leads the team in tackles. There are so many variables that goes into the 53-man roster. In Hawk's case, I think you cut your losses if Smith beats him for the starting job. Maybe you try to trade him before cut down day. I can't justify hanging onto him at his salary unless he's a starter.
zombieslayer
12 years ago

One of these days someone is going to have to prove that to me. I have seen that argument quite a few times, but nobody has anything concrete to back it up besides opinion. Since it tends to be people who already didn't like Barnett, I am thinking the eye test won't be unbiased.

I made some attempt to see how many yards down field Barnett made his tackles on running plays, I had nothing to compare it too, but it didn't look that bad. Certainly not 5 yards per carry. Barnett had the most tackles on the team but a wide margin most years, if he was consistently failing to make stops, the Packers yard per carry allowed would have been worse.

In the last 3 years Barnett was a starter the whole year, the Packers YPC allowed on D was 4.1 in '06, 3.9 in '07 and 3.6 in '09.

When he wasn't in for most of the year the D allowed 4.6 and 4.7 ypc in '08 and '10.

If Barnett was getting carried 5 yards, he was initiating contact over a yard before the line of scrimmage consistently.

Now I thought Barnett was a tool as much as anybody else. But if anybody knows me, they know I want to see the numbers. To me, the accusation that Barnett couldn't make a tackle and using the eye test as evidence makes me trust that measure of a player even less. And I don't trust it in the slightest already.

Basically I am saying, until you show me, I don't believe it.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Yes. People let their personal biases get in the way of facts. Like the Favre fiasco, people took sides and there wasn't much of an honest appraisal on Favre's abilities. They were either exaggerated good or exaggerated bad, depending on which side of the fence you took.

I know, bad example and my apologies for bringing him up. But he's immediately who comes to mind when biases get in the way of facts.

I showed Barnett's stats last year with Buffalo. They weren't too shabby and he's certainly missed here. I know he had personality issues. That's not what I'm discussing. I'm discussing his actual abilities.

I think the best criticism of Nick Barnett comes down to availability. 🇲🇲 talks about accountability and availability. Barnett's raw numbers spoke for themselves. However, he did miss a lot of games in the past few years and that was a valid argument for letting him go. His performance wasn't.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

One of these days someone is going to have to prove that to me. I have seen that argument quite a few times, but nobody has anything concrete to back it up besides opinion. Since it tends to be people who already didn't like Barnett, I am thinking the eye test won't be unbiased.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



I said it, I like Nick Barnett and have since the day he was drafted. Remember when he was at someones house and fell into a metal fence giving him a black eye before he even donned a Packers uniform?

It's also convenient to say you want that proven to you because so many websites have the stat "point of contact" and "point of tackle" so you can measure it up against others, lol.

I'm probably guilty of holding to high of a standard on middle/inside linebackers. The games I've seen Ray Lewis play, he seems to always knock the guy backward or they are tackled quick. Nick Barnett it seems he's out of position, not shedding blocks and gets guys from behind while they have momentum going forward and they drag him a bit. I want linebackers to make the contact, not react to it.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

I think the best criticism of Nick Barnett comes down to availability. 🇲🇲 talks about accountability and availability. Barnett's raw numbers spoke for themselves. However, he did miss a lot of games in the past few years and that was a valid argument for letting him go. His performance wasn't.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



lol, just realized this thread is about Smith and Hawk haha oops. Anyhow, I think Barnett led the Packers in tackles most of his years as a Packer.

Edit, stats + curiosity = my weakness. Barnett led the team every year he played except three times, two of which he was injured.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
12 years ago

lol, just realized this thread is about Smith and Hawk haha oops. Anyhow, I think Barnett led the Packers in tackles most of his years as a Packer.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Well he should have, he was the fricken MLB in a 4-3. The thing that always bugged me about Barnett besides the samurai dance, was that anybody he tackled never went backward. Just never any thump to him. Hawk has the same problem.


UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Martha Careful (2h) : Two terrific NCAA Football Semi-Final Games...We can only hope the Championship game is as good
Zero2Cool (22h) : Eagles WR DeVonta Smith will be a DNP in today’s practice. He’s dealing with back tightness. But the expectation is that he’ll play Sunday.
Zero2Cool (22h) : Jalen Hurts has cleared the concussion protocol. He’s playing Sunday.
Zero2Cool (23h) : 𝕏avier McKinney First Team All-Pro
Zero2Cool (10-Jan) : NFL moves Vikings-Rams playoff tilt to Arizona due to fires
Zero2Cool (10-Jan) : Rams lose home field advantage for Monday game.
Mucky Tundra (9-Jan) : Notre Lame=Notre Dame, Luckeyes=Ohio State, Pedo St=Penn St
Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : ... It clearly was not what we were supposed to be in, certainly."
Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : Hafley says 3rd and 11 call there was a miscommunication.
Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : The only team I know is Texas from that. Who are the other three?
Mucky Tundra (9-Jan) : Notre Lame vs Pedo St tonight and the Luckeyes vs Texas tomorrow
Mucky Tundra (9-Jan) : Stud
Zero2Cool (9-Jan) : E. Cooper. Rookie of Month. Defense.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : @AaronNagler · 2m Both Jordan Love and Malik Willis were Limited participants at Packers practice today.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson didn't make it until 2020. Ring 2023. 🤷 Personally, he should have been in years prior to Hall.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : HUMP DAY
beast (8-Jan) : Guys that have a good shot at making the NFL Hall of Fame usually get into their teams pretty fast
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, but is Kampman and the others in the NFL Hall of Fame?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Johnson was Hall of Fame, 2020. Should haev been in Ring a year later, not three years.
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I could be wrong there though
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Guys like Kampman, Tim Harris, Al Harris, etc all over 15 years. Hall of Fame is 5 year wait
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : I guess I see players in Packers Hall come way later
beast (8-Jan) : Yeah, usually teams hall of fames are a much lower bar than the NFL
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : is it uncommon for Hall before Ring?
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : S Xavier McKinney named first-team All-Pro by NFLPA
beast (8-Jan) : I missed it, sorry, but he got into the NFL Hall of Fame years before that
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Jones took his sweet ole time!
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Yeah, he's in the ring of honor, just saw video and his name is up there
Zero2Cool (8-Jan) : Didn't they have a thing in 2023 for Jimmy's ring of honor? I swear I saw it
beast (8-Jan) : Though if they're legitimately trying to re-sign MM, then it makes sense.
beast (8-Jan) : Jerry Jones still hasn't put Jimmy Johnson in the Ring of Honor, but he's in the NFL's Hall of Fame, Jones is petty
Mucky Tundra (8-Jan) : Unless the Cowboys are planning an extension, seems kinda petty
beast (8-Jan) : Cowboys denied Bears request
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : From what I'm reading, MM is under contract through the 14th of January; after that he's free game
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : McCarthy let go or not extended??
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Chicago Bears have asked the Dallas Cowboys permission to interview Mike McCarthy for head coaching vacancy
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : The winners page that is
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : I was not hoping for that. It messes up the page lol
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3.
beast (6-Jan) : Thank you, and I was really opening we were going to get 4 or more tied for the top 3
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats beast on 2024 !
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : congrats porky on winning 2023 pick'em! (oops sorry)
Zero2Cool (6-Jan) : Packers have $60M+ of 2025 cap space on paper TODAY.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Missed FG into a Lions TD; that'll do pig, that'll do
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : That might be it for the Vikings
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : Oh so the refs do know what intentional grounding is
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : what the hell was that Goff?! Not much pressure and he just air mails it to Harrison
Mucky Tundra (6-Jan) : They really need to to get rid of the auto first down for illegal contact
Martha Careful (6-Jan) : watching the Vikings and Lions it's understandable why they swept the Packers. So much better product
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

18h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

9-Jan / Around The NFL / beast

9-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

9-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

8-Jan / Around The NFL / beast

7-Jan / Fantasy Sports Talk / wpr

7-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

7-Jan / Fantasy Sports Talk / Zero2Cool

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

6-Jan / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.