bozz_2006
14 years ago
It's going to be increasingly difficult for Driver to stay relevant. That's for sure.
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Pack93z
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14 years ago

I'm not focused solely on his drops. My whole problem has been with you guys acting like Jones is unjustly criticized. I think it's fine for people to criticize him especially when you guys do things like compare his drop rate to Jennings and other players who are much better receivers.

I've already covered the target % thing. If he was the only other WR on the team yeah his stats would probably go up but right now his stats aren't that high because he hasn't distanced himself from anyone else on the team. If anything he lost distance to Jordy. If Jones was so worthy of being a starter and getting more targets he would. Just like Jennings did. It's not just the system keeping him from putting up numbers like a #1.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



I will politely disagree with the concept of our offense verse opportunity for the receivers. By design we spread people out, target weaknesses in coverage and are constantly shifting receivers in their roles.. not a traditional pro style offense with 2 main targets.

I am not saying Jones shouldn't be criticized, I just think people are not looking at his body of work overall and are clouded solely by the timing of his drops.

Either way.. you have your opinion, I have mine and at the end of the day I respect your opinion. Sans F-bombs.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

It's going to be increasingly difficult for Driver to stay relevant. That's for sure.

Originally Posted by: bozz_2006 


Yes sir and notice, I didn't even mention any of the Packers rookie WR. I like Donald Driver, a lot and think he's a great leader... but the more we're talking about WR and the cap and what not ... I'm starting to think he's going to be playing for another team come September.

I'm hoping the Packers handle his departure better than ...[-x
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earthquake
14 years ago

It is not an unreasonable opinion at all it is an opinion after all.. just don't throw out a fact like a 10% drop rate without comparative numbers yet use that to devalue said player.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Certainly, statistics without context are useless and misleading.


Additionally.. in that subjective approach... don't forget to counter with key and clutch catches they make as well.



I agree, Jones has made some spectacular catches over the years, he actually has excellent hands, which I think is what is so frustrating to many people. You see him make an amazing, incredibly difficult catch, and then drop an easy TD. I think as fans we definitively have the tendency to exaggerate the bad plays, especially packer fans. However, I don't think that is something exclusive to James Jones.


This whole statistical debate came from a 10% drop rate for Jones with no comparative looks, all I am trying to do is paint a more accurate picture using facts available.



I dont want to "take sides" on the stats issue, my point was more that stats aren't going to be the end all be all that people use to form opinions on someone, and everyone is going to interpenetrate stats differently, so getting too analytical with the stats stuff is probably just going to be a frustrating endeavour.

Anyway, back to Jones himself. I actually feel like the his perception around the league is that of a risky FA, too many drops etc. In fact I really HOPE this is what other teams think, because we know what he can produce in GB, and we know what he is capable of, especially if he can catch just a few more passes per year. I think this, combined with the lowered salary cap and the largely inflated/devalued free agent market will help make it more feasible for GB to sign him. Which I am all for. Many years Jones would be a top FA WR, there are probably 5 guys ahead of him, which will drive his value down.
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matteogb4
14 years ago
i d love to keep at the reasonable price splitting number 2 spot with jordy, who i love, and cobb growing as number 4 and kr and pr...the point is: is donald driver going to accept to be number 5 and act like the menthor and leader not playing of this group???


but i still think jones is looking for big money and for being #1 wr so it is gonna be difficult keep him
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bozz_2006
14 years ago
I am thinking, if anything, he'll agree to less money to stay in GB. I don't think he wants to play anywhere else and I don't see him playing for anyone else. Not this season, anyhow.
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Stevetarded
14 years ago

So the fact that Greg Jennings big drop was in a game the Packers lost and the big drop from James Jones the Packers won .. .that fact doesn't matter? [grin1]

BTW, to be clear, I'm not saying James Jones doesn't NEED to improve, he does, no question. Anytime the ball hits a receiver in the hands and it's dropped, it bugs me. I just think kicking James Jones to the curb in favor of Donald Driver is a mistake and am just kind of surprised it seems many would rather Driver over Jones.

I think our WR are
Greg Jennings
James Jones
Donald Driver / Jordy Nelson

And depending on the first few games of the season, I might throw Jordy in 4 alone and Driver as 5.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Not really. For instance the Jets game which was potentially Jones most costly drop was won on the backs of Jennings and Nelson (as far as passing goes) while Jones disappeared. In the Lions game when Jennings had his drop he still led the WRs and nobody else covered for him. Theres several reasons why a game is a win or a loss but a dropped TD is a dropped TD.

I am not in favor of kicking out Jones for Driver btw I would prefer a Jones resigning and a Driver contract reduction but i'm not sure that's even an option at this point. I think Jordy had the upper hand on Jones by the end of last year though.
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Pack93z
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14 years ago


I dont want to "take sides" on the stats issue, my point was more that stats aren't going to be the end all be all that people use to form opinions on someone, and everyone is going to interpenetrate stats differently, so getting too analytical with the stats stuff is probably just going to be a frustrating endeavour.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



There are no "sides".. actually it was an interesting debate from my perspective and somewhat eye opening just how good we have had it for the past couple of season in terms of overall production from our receiving corp.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Not really. For instance the Jets game which was potentially Jones most costly drop was won on the backs of Jennings and Nelson (as far as passing goes) while Jones disappeared. In the Lions game when Jennings had his drop he still led the WRs and nobody else covered for him. Theres several reasons why a game is a win or a loss but a dropped TD is a dropped TD.

I am not in favor of kicking out Jones for Driver btw I would prefer a Jones resigning and a Driver contract reduction but i'm not sure that's even an option at this point. I think Jordy had the upper hand on Jones by the end of last year though.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



One post you say you believe in facts, then the next you speak hypothetically about James Jones drop "potentially" costing the Packers the game? C'mon man!!!

Oh, but a dropped TD isn't always a dropped TD ... how many times have we seen a player have the ball knocked out from behind? Let's keep it to the facts!!!

Just giving you a hard time ...


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Pack93z
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14 years ago


I am not in favor of kicking out Jones for Driver btw I would prefer a Jones resigning and a Driver contract reduction but i'm not sure that's even an option at this point. I think Jordy had the upper hand on Jones by the end of last year though.

Originally Posted by: Stevetarded 



Please explain that last sentence? Jordy had a much higher drop percentage than Jones.. they just came at different times.

Jordy's product numbers for the season (larger sample) didn't exceed Jones (albeit he was targeted 3% less of the time)... so what is the basis for that statement.

Not being argumentative.. just want to understand your point.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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