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macbob
13 years ago
What Zero and Zombie said. Desmond Howard, SB XXXI MVP.
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago
The one time that has happened in the history of the NFL.

Pointing to such a marked aberration is hardly a good way to support one's argument that an outstanding return team is essential to winning a championship.

Before someone trots out the phrase, "The exception that proves a rule," let me point out that that aphorism dates back to a time when the word prove meant "to test" (as its cognate probieren still does in German), not "to demonstrate that something is true."

Might I remind you that the Bears lost both the Super Bowl and the NFC Championship despite having Hester on the roster -- and that was with Peyton Manning doing his best to give the Lombardi Trophy away.
UserPostedImage
Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago
I am with NSD and Bozz.

If the average ST rank of the Super Bowl winner for the last 10 years is worse than 16th, it doesn't seem to be a deciding factor. Of course you want to be better everywhere, but ST is not that critical. Wasting a pick, roster spot or the salary of a return guy is not going to make the team more likely to win a Super Bowl. You go with what increases your odds them most.

Hint, it is D and Passing.

Hester averages 3 TDs a year. A decent number 1 WR would probably get 8-10. The Bears would be better off trading Hester for a good WR.

Indy had a ST ranking at or near the bottom of the league when they won. The Bears were near the top when they lost.

I thought Reggie won the super bowl for us. We already had a lead when Howard scored. Reggie held up that lead. We didn't really need Howards return to win. We did need Reggie to step up and take over the game. He did.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
doddpower
13 years ago
Using the Colts vs. Bears example is a little silly, imo. Of course a good return man isn't going to win the game by himself. In order to become a champion, a good team is generally needed all the way around. While an elite special teams unit can certainly help, God himself can only do so much for Sexy Rexy Grossman. And while the Bears defense was very good, I feel as if it's pretty rhetorical that, at minimum, a decent defense and offense is needed in addition to an elite ST's unit in order to win a super bowl.
stevegb
13 years ago


1996.
Desmond Howard.
99 yard kick return.
Changed momentum of the game.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Geez I even consider the game against the pats when the offensive lineman returned it to the 5 against us a momentum changer.
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Greg C.
13 years ago

We can only hope he turns out as suggested ... Find it sort of humorous that we future project draft picks into top starter positions ...

"Dulak" wrote:



Is it really such a stretch to project a second round draft pick, who was a decent returner in college, to beat out a few guys who have already proven themselves to be below average? Highly drafted players often start at positions that are much more important than kick returner, and I think Cobb is clearly the front runner for the job at this point.

I tend to side with bozz about kick returner not being hugely important, but a GM should do every little thing he can to help his team compete. I'm not sold on Cobb being anything better than an average returner, but average would be an improvement, and maybe he'll break a long one occasionally.
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doddpower
13 years ago

We can only hope he turns out as suggested ... Find it sort of humorous that we future project draft picks into top starter positions ...

"Greg C." wrote:



Is it really such a stretch to project a second round draft pick, who was a decent returner in college, to beat out a few guys who have already proven themselves to be below average? Highly drafted players often start at positions that are much more important than kick returner, and I think Cobb is clearly the front runner for the job at this point.

I tend to side with bozz about kick returner not being hugely important, but a GM should do every little thing he can to help his team compete. I'm not sold on Cobb being anything better than an average returner, but average would be an improvement, and maybe he'll break a long one occasionally.

"Dulak" wrote:



Why do you think Cobb will never be more than average? Do you think he is too slow?
Greg C.
13 years ago

We can only hope he turns out as suggested ... Find it sort of humorous that we future project draft picks into top starter positions ...

"doddpower" wrote:



Is it really such a stretch to project a second round draft pick, who was a decent returner in college, to beat out a few guys who have already proven themselves to be below average? Highly drafted players often start at positions that are much more important than kick returner, and I think Cobb is clearly the front runner for the job at this point.

I tend to side with bozz about kick returner not being hugely important, but a GM should do every little thing he can to help his team compete. I'm not sold on Cobb being anything better than an average returner, but average would be an improvement, and maybe he'll break a long one occasionally.

"Greg C." wrote:



Why do you think Cobb will never be more than average? Do you think he is too slow?

"Dulak" wrote:



I didn't mean never, I just meant right now. I don't get the impression that he was a great college returner. But he could improve.
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vikesrule
13 years ago

We can only hope he turns out as suggested ... Find it sort of humorous that we future project draft picks into top starter positions ...

"Greg C." wrote:



Is it really such a stretch to project a second round draft pick, who was a decent returner in college, to beat out a few guys who have already proven themselves to be below average? Highly drafted players often start at positions that are much more important than kick returner, and I think Cobb is clearly the front runner for the job at this point.

I tend to side with bozz about kick returner not being hugely important, but a GM should do every little thing he can to help his team compete. I'm not sold on Cobb being anything better than an average returner, but average would be an improvement, and maybe he'll break a long one occasionally.

"doddpower" wrote:



Personally, I have hopes for young Cobb......he's on my short list.

Why do you think Cobb will never be more than average? Do you think he is too slow?

"Greg C." wrote:



I didn't mean never, I just meant right now. I don't get the impression that he was a great college returner. But he could improve.

"Dulak" wrote:



Personally, I have hopes for young Cobb.....he's on my short list.
Tezzy
13 years ago
I would rather Cobb produce at WR than at returner. But if he can be effective at punt returner then I am all for it to replace Williams there.
On top of every beard grows a man.
"The Bears are shell-shocked... and it's breaking my heart."
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (14m) : I guess 3 games. Whatever
Zero2Cool (28m) : Bleh, that only impacts two games.
Zero2Cool (36m) : Packers are gonna get 3rd place division schedule next year.
Mucky Tundra (1h) : Kanata, seek help! lol
beast (3h) : I was rooting for the Bears to win and hurt their draft pick status
Zero2Cool (3h) : Forgot there was even a game last night haha
TheKanataThrilla (3h) : That was terrible.
TheKanataThrilla (3h) : Watching that game in its entirety yesterday is proof positive that I am a football addict.
beast (4h) : And horrible time management multiple times... and not being able to score more than 3 points on a team with talent
beast (4h) : Realizing the Bears didn't fix it from the previous week and do the same thing, getting the game to overtime
beast (4h) : They probably are not tanking, but they've absolutely mismanagement some things, such as Vikings seeing the Packers blocked FG and realizing
Zero2Cool (5h) : Crazy of Bears to have that mindset that is
Zero2Cool (5h) : Hail Mary stop away from 5 - 2. Not sure how that flips to tanking. Crazy mindset if true
beast (6h) : I've quietly questioned if Bears are tanking on purpose... they suddenly got a lot worse with some simple concepts like 101 clock management
wpr (8h) : Watching bares fans melt down over how putrid their team is, so enjoyable. It's the gift that keeps on giving.
Mucky Tundra (15h) : The Seattle Seahawks defeat the Chicago Bears 6-3. Jason Myers had 6 RBIs for Seattle while Cairo Santos had 3 RBI for Chicago
beast (16h) : Not nessarily, he might of been injured either way. He's playing about 50% of the games the last 4 years
Zero2Cool (22h) : If they'd been more patient with him, he'd be back already. Putting him out there vs Bears caused him to tweak it and here we are.
packerfanoutwest (23h) : well this is his last season with the PAck, book it
beast (26-Dec) : Sounds like no Alexander (again), I'm wondering if his time with the Packers is done
Zero2Cool (26-Dec) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.
Mucky Tundra (26-Dec) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
packerfanoutwest (25-Dec) : Feliz Navidad!
Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!
beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
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