RedSoxExcel
15 years ago
Interesting read, he seems kind of bitter against Rodgers and he is not taking into account his age, experience, OL, etc.

But this is my general feeling on him. Great QB, great guy (doesn't throw teammates under the bus), tough as nails, great potential but not quite "there" yet. Its not fair but your judged by wins and losses in the NFL even though it is a team game. But I really thought when we were down 31-26 with the ball in the Vikings game, that was going to be "it", but it wasn't. Hopefully with more experience, better OL, etc., things will change with the beating bad teams only.


http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/68963672.html 

Numbers are lost in translation
Rodgers' statistics are impressive, but playing poor teams has helped
By Rob Reischel


Green Bay It's a safe bet that fantasy football owners everywhere love Aaron Rodgers. The Green Bay Packers quarterback is fifth in the NFL in touchdown passes (14), sixth in passing yards (1,989) and has just two interceptions.

While Rodgers might be winning games for fantasy owners, he's not posting any big wins for the Packers. And right now, he's quickly gaining a reputation for being a stats guy but not a winning quarterback.

In 23 starts, Rodgers has compiled a disappointing 10-13 record (.435). And good luck finding a signature win, as only two of Rodgers' victories have come against teams with a winning record when they played Green Bay.

Meanwhile, the consistent theme in Rodgers' losses has been mediocre performances early on.

In some of those games, Rodgers and the offense played better in the second half - such as Green Bay's 38-26 loss to Minnesota on Sunday.

But often, those offensive woes have left the Packers too big of a hole to escape. Rodgers' final numbers have then wound up inflated because opposing defenses are content allowing time to run while Rodgers & Co. pad their stats.

The only victories he has against plus-.500 teams came in 2008 vs. Chicago (5-4) and Indianapolis (3-2). And six of Rodgers' 10 wins have come against Detroit, Seattle, Cleveland and St. Louis - a trio that's a combined 14-79 since the start of last season.

"He's a good football player, but it's a team game," Packer coach Mike McCarthy said of Rodgers.

"It's about wins and losses and the ability to pull it all together. You look at everything that evolves around your football team, and Aaron is part of the solution. There is no doubt about it. He is definitely one of the positives, but he has things he needs to work on too, just like every member of our football team."

One of those is starting faster.

In Green Bay's three losses this year, Rodgers has gone 25 of 44 for 304 yards, two touchdowns and one interception in the first half.

That's a passer rating of 83.9, which certainly isn't a bad number, but it's also nowhere near Rodgers' NFL-leading mark of 110.4.

In the second half of those losses, Rodgers is 48 for 73 for 628 yards, four touchdown and no interceptions. That's a passer rating of 111.0.

The greatest discrepancy in Rodgers' performance came in the latest loss to the Vikings. Rodgers had a miserable first half, going 5 of 11 for 38 yards with no touchdowns and a 54.4 passer rating.

Overall, Green Bay managed just 47 net yards in the half, its fewest since a 31-10 loss in Denver on Oct. 17, 1999. Not surprisingly, the Packers were in a 17-3 hole to the Vikings.

"We weren't in a rhythm," Rodgers said of Green Bay's first half struggles. "I think that's the first thing. That was due to a lack of execution.

"I was a little bit off in the first half and we were struggling with the field position battle a little bit, too. . . . We didn't really get the momentum back until the third quarter."

Rodgers and the Packers did get rolling after halftime. In fact, Green Bay scored on four straight possessions - three touchdowns and one field goal - to close within 31-26.

The Packers abandoned their putrid rushing game and let Rodgers wing it around the field against Minnesota's overmatched secondary.

Rodgers had a second half passer rating of 128.3 after completing 21 of 30 for 249 yards, three touchdowns and no interceptions.

"I started hitting guys that were open," Rodgers said. "The first half I struggled, missed a couple throws I should have hit. When we get into a rhythm on offense, we're tough to stop."

A major knock on Rodgers, though, is that he hasn't delivered at the most critical times.

Rodgers went 0-7 in games decided by four points or less in 2008. And eight different times last year, Rodgers had a chance to pull out a game in the final five minutes and failed in each instance.

This year, Rodgers briefly quieted those naysayers when he threw a 50-yard, game-winning touchdown to Greg Jennings in a 21-15 season-opening win over Chicago. And midway through the fourth quarter of Sunday's game with Minnesota, Rodgers had a chance for a career-defining drive.

Trailing, 31-26, with 8:13 left, Rodgers and the Packers took over at their own 19. Just two plays later, the Packers had marched to Minnesota's 28.

But on second and 3, Rodgers took his sixth sack of the game, losing five yards on the play. Rodgers then threw incomplete on third down, and Mason Crosby proceeded to miss a 51-yard field goal.

Brett Favre and the Vikings reclaimed the ball - and quickly regained all momentum.

On Minnesota's first play, Favre hit Adrian Peterson for 44 yards on a screen pass. Then two plays later, Favre hummed a 16-yard touchdown pass to Bernard Berrian.

Ball game.

"I hate losing to whoever's at quarterback for them," Rodgers said. "I hate losing to the Vikings, especially. (They're) division rivals (and we) don't like those (losses) at home.

"We just could not keep that momentum and could not finish off the drive we had to take the lead, so that was disappointing. It doesn't matter who you play, though, it's tough to lose."


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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
The thing with playing bad teams ... every team plays bad teams. The Packers are doing better against the bad teams than other teams are. I don't think the Packers nor players should be faulted for that.
UserPostedImage
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
I can easily tell this is slanted to make Aaron look not so good. I like how it conveniently says he has won 2 games against teams with winning records. That automatically throws out two of Rodgers biggest wins. Opening season last and this year. Those teams were 0-0 so they had no record and were not counted.

The W-L thing is a joke. Flacco had more wins last year, while winning with <150 yards and 0 TD. Rodgers loses with 300 and 2 TD. Rodgers is a great QB, and will be for a long time, as long as we don't kill him.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
RedSoxExcel
15 years ago

I can easily tell this is slanted to make Aaron look not so good. I like how it conveniently says he has won 2 games against teams with winning records. That automatically throws out two of Rodgers biggest wins. Opening season last and this year. Those teams were 0-0 so they had no record and were not counted.

The W-L thing is a joke. Flacco had more wins last year, while winning with <150 yards and 0 TD. Rodgers loses with 300 and 2 TD. Rodgers is a great QB, and will be for a long time, as long as we don't kill him.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



Me anyway is not saying he's a bad QB or something. Its not an all or nothing thing. I just feel that he's not quite "there" yet like a Matt Ryan or even a Joe Flacco. He hasn't been able to have a lot of those signature wins. Last year, 8 times with ball to take lead or win and failing each time is pretty bad and that 31-26 drive/the first half in big Vikings games are not so good. He's still a great QB but all I am saying is that he hasn't turned the corner into turning the corner yet in winning games for his team.

He's young and the sample size is small, so it will come with time I assume. But just like any other QB in the league, there are areas for improvement and one of them is winning games for his team. I think its hard to argue against that.
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Zero2Cool
15 years ago
We've debated that eight games thing and proved it was not accurate.
UserPostedImage
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

I can easily tell this is slanted to make Aaron look not so good. I like how it conveniently says he has won 2 games against teams with winning records. That automatically throws out two of Rodgers biggest wins. Opening season last and this year. Those teams were 0-0 so they had no record and were not counted.

The W-L thing is a joke. Flacco had more wins last year, while winning with <150 yards and 0 TD. Rodgers loses with 300 and 2 TD. Rodgers is a great QB, and will be for a long time, as long as we don't kill him.

"RedSoxExcel" wrote:



Me anyway is not saying he's a bad QB or something. Its not an all or nothing thing. I just feel that he's not quite "there" yet like a Matt Ryan or even a Joe Flacco. He hasn't been able to have a lot of those signature wins. Last year, 8 times with ball to take lead or win and failing each time is pretty bad and that 31-26 drive/the first half in big Vikings games are not so good. He's still a great QB but all I am saying is that he hasn't turned the corner into turning the corner yet in winning games for his team.

He's young and the sample size is small, so it will come with time I assume. But just like any other QB in the league, there are areas for improvement and one of them is winning games for his team. I think its hard to argue against that.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



IMO the bolded statement is a joke. Nothing personal

Rodgers is a better QB than either Ryan of Flacco, even though I like Ryan alot, and Flacco some. Ryan had the #2 rushing attack. Falco had the #4 rushing and #2 defense. I would have more wins than Rodgers.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
longtimefan
15 years ago
Browns= 1 td no int, 110 yards

Lions= 2 tds no int, 155 yards

Rams = 1 td and 1 int 232 yards

total of 4 tds and 1 int 497 yards

Who is this?
RedSoxExcel
15 years ago

We've debated that eight games thing and proved it was not accurate.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Ok, I just took it from the article. But I don't get why its impossible that he has some flaws:

Good:

Strong character (took over for a HOF QB and survived AND with class)

Tough as nails (gets up after every hit and has played injured)

Great teammate (doesn't throw the OL under the bus in the media)

Strong arm (can sling it anywhere)

Decent speed and not afraid to run it (great for us considering our OL)

Great statistics (last year and this year)

Starting to use all wide receivers, TEs, FBs, RBs, etc.

Etc.


Not So Good:

Holds on to the ball too long/Game Management (I don't know how this can be denied, i.e. Vikings safety, you have ot know your in the end zone)

"Clutch" (he has failed a bunch of times, maybe not 8 or whatever but Falcons game, bad, Matt Ryan good. Tampa Bay late game INT, not good. Vikings game, 31-26 drive bad, Favre 31-26 drive good. Can you honestly say you would choose him if you were down by 4 in the 4th quarter, one drive over "the" guys like Favre, Brady and Manning? No of course not but he's young, it will come)

Win-Loss record (has not had a lot of signature wins and has already had as many losing seasons as Favre)

Not taking Risks (Yes he has a great TD/INT ratio but sometimes you have to sling it. I love what he did when we were down 38-26, he took some risks and tried to thread the needle, worst happens you get picked off. Favre was Mr. INT but he is also the winningest QB ever, so sometimes you have to do it)

Etc.



But those things can be corrected with age and experience and are not physical. And enough with these "well if he had a great OL and had Barry Sanders in his prime and had Jerry Rice has his 3rd WR", it'd be different. Its life, your play with the cards your dealt.

Do you consider Jay Cutler as a top 5 QB because if he had WRs and a RB, he'd be way better? Favre had garbage offenses at times where Billy Schroder was his #1 WR, etc. but he still won a ton of games (difference is Rodgers is young and Favre was older, its not saying Rodgers sucks, it just saying he's not there yet). We can't constantly make excuses for him. At some point he has to just plain win and have game winning drives. It will happen but I don't think its the end of the world that it hasn't happened so far. I'm just pointing out that its not an all or nothing argument, he can be in between perfect and Jamarcus Russel.
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RedSoxExcel
15 years ago



IMO the bolded statement is a joke. Nothing personal

Rodgers is a better QB than either Ryan of Flacco, even though I like Ryan alot, and Flacco some. Ryan had the #2 rushing attack. Falco had the #4 rushing and #2 defense. I would have more wins than Rodgers.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:



Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan ARE there. They are on winning teams, winning games and putting together great drives (i.e. Flacco v. Favre - he put them ahead until Favre came back and then again after that). Plus they are in their SECOND year in the league. Rodgers at least got to sit behind Favre and learn a bit.

They are winners, that is ALL I mean. I am not saying if you put them in a QB Challenge in Hawaii, they would win. I just find it hard to argue that if your down 24-20 in the 4th quarter, you would take Rodgers over Joe Cool or Matty Ice (at this point). But thats just opinion and you can see it differently.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago
Combined stats against Detroit, Cleveland and St. Louis.

57/80 (71.3%) for 873 yards (10.9 avg), with 7 TDs and 1 Int.

Combined stats against Minnesota x 2 and Cincinnatti.

73/117 (62.4%) for 932 yards (8.0 avg), with 6 TDs and 1 Int.

I left the Bears out on purpose. Don't know where to place them. They're somewhere in between those 6 teams.

The thing that stands out to me is that he's still playing amazing games against these strong teams. Maybe not in the first half, but overall, he puts up some impressive stats.

The thing that I noticed is the 'low' average (still high by league standards) in these big games. Once again, it shows that they tend to figure out that constantly going deep doesn't work well against these strong teams. Problem is, they usually find out too late.
Fan Shout
beast (17h) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
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