Okay, Noahs Ark?· Page 15

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

Think of it like this.......remember the sinking of the Titanic? People were told to get into the lifeboats, that the great ship was going down. Many laughed, and i read where MANY made statements like "Why should we leave this great ship, to climb into a tiny, cold, lifeboat?" So was in the day of Noah. No one believed him, they laughed at him and the whole idea of a flood. People ridiculed the crew on the Titanic for telling them to get into the lifeboats, and many ended up dieing. Just like all those that Noah warned, time and time again, only to die because of their choosing to ignore him.

And I'm SURE Noah had GREAT vision. Not near perfect, but lots better then we have today. Even with that, stand and look out over lake Michigan. On a clear day, can you see Michigan from Green Bay? The curvature of the earth prevents you from seeing farther, right? So i think that fact would say why Noah didn't see land, and the WHOLE EARTH was flooded. And there was nothing out there to kill the bird. It was the only living thing flying around.
Oh....and not all seas creatures were spared, i'm sure. Under water volcanos i'm sure erupted at the time of the flood, and i bet there were creatures killed by the boiling water and lava.

"Cheesey" wrote:

I really like the Titanic reference. When watching Evan Almighty, I thought of the same thing.

Nothing to kill the bird? It could have had a heartache or a gusty wind hit it's wing the wrong way an shatter it, or any thousands of freak accidents could have happened. Unless you don't believe in accidents and believe that every little thing that happens in life has a reason behind it. (which i won't argue with too much)

Cheesey
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#142

Ok......the "meat" reference......you refered to God as a "murderer" for killing all those animals, right?
NOW you see how it ties in? I am a hunter. I actually KILL deer. Do i consider myself a murderer? Nope. If you eat meat, what i meant was you have a part in "murdering" animals for as many years as you eat meat.
So.....if i lost you on that, i'm sorry.
Oh....and God had to kill animals to clothe Adam and Eve when they sinned and for the first time realized they were naked. They CAUSED the first death by their actions.
As far as the bird goes, if God could protect Noah, his family, and the animals on the ark, do you think He would not protect the bird that Noah sent out?
I can hear the reply now....."Why didn't God just TELL Noah when it was safe to get off the ark?" I don't KNOW why. But God doesn't ALWAYS spell things out in detail for us, or tell us WHY things happen a certain way. So He made Noah do it that way.
Many times when i was young, i would ask my parents if i could go somewhere or do something. Sometimes I would hear "NO." When i asked "why?" Sometimes i got a detailed reply, sometimes i got "Because i said so."

Pack93z
Select Member

15 years ago

#143

Ok......the "meat" reference......you refered to God as a "murderer" for killing all those animals, right?
NOW you see how it ties in? I am a hunter. I actually KILL deer. Do i consider myself a murderer? Nope. If you eat meat, what i meant was you have a part in "murdering" animals for as many years as you eat meat.

"Cheesey" wrote:

It is not the part of the animals that I find conflict in the story.. I find conflict in that God directly broke one of his 10 commandments if the Ark and Noah is true as written.

"You shall not murder*"

By saving only Noah and leaving the rest to parish, he directly broke his own golden rules.

Are we to believe that Noah was the only one worth salvation?

So I have a choice, I either believe in God, his written words interpreted by man in the commandments or I believe the fable of the ark.

Plain and simple, my challenge with embracing the written word of the Ark.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#144

Ok......the "meat" reference......you refered to God as a "murderer" for killing all those animals, right?
NOW you see how it ties in? I am a hunter. I actually KILL deer. Do i consider myself a murderer? Nope. If you eat meat, what i meant was you have a part in "murdering" animals for as many years as you eat meat.
So.....if i lost you on that, i'm sorry.
Oh....and God had to kill animals to clothe Adam and Eve when they sinned and for the first time realized they were naked. They CAUSED the first death by their actions.
As far as the bird goes, if God could protect Noah, his family, and the animals on the ark, do you think He would not protect the bird that Noah sent out?
I can hear the reply now....."Why didn't God just TELL Noah when it was safe to get off the ark?" I don't KNOW why. But God doesn't ALWAYS spell things out in detail for us, or tell us WHY things happen a certain way. So He made Noah do it that way.
Many times when i was young, i would ask my parents if i could go somewhere or do something. Sometimes I would hear "NO." When i asked "why?" Sometimes i got a detailed reply, sometimes i got "Because i said so."

"Cheesey" wrote:

Did I say that? I thought I asked why God murdered so many people. I intended the comment about the animals as just that, a question. Not sure how I fubarred that up, but I don't think God is a murderer for killing animals. My question again was ... why were some saved and some not? That's more of a 'curious' question. Remember, I don't know these things, hence, the thread.

Why would God tell Noah when it was safe? Wouldn't that kind of go against the purpose of killing most every living thing on the planet? Meaning, they mistreated life. God gave Noah life, twice.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#145

Pack93Z....God said "You shall not murder". It was pointed at US.
God does NOT "murder". Like i have said over and over, He gave the people the choice to follow Him or not. They themselves chose NOT, and thus chose their ultimate death.
You can try to blame God for that, but it's NOT fair or right. He provided the way out, to safety. He had Noah TELL the people for MANY YEARS that the flood was coming. The PEOPLE chose to instead laugh at him, make fun of him. So who's fault ultimately is it that they died?
If you stand in the middle of a busy road, and run around laughing, while someone keeps yelling to you "Get out of the road! You're gonna get run over!" And YOU decide to ignore their pleas for you to get out of the road, will you blame THEM for when you DO get run over?

Pack93z
Select Member

15 years ago

#146

Pack93Z....God said "You shall not murder". It was pointed at US.
God does NOT "murder". Like i have said over and over, He gave the people the choice to follow Him or not. They themselves chose NOT, and thus chose their ultimate death.
You can try to blame God for that, but it's NOT fair or right. He provided the way out, to safety. He had Noah TELL the people for MANY YEARS that the flood was coming. The PEOPLE chose to instead laugh at him, make fun of him. So who's fault ultimately is it that they died?

"Cheesey" wrote:

To be clear, I am not trying to argue, more or less state my curiosity in blindly believing this interpretation of God's word.

So if someone today starts preaching that the world is going to end on X day unless we change are ways, what are they cast as?

So because Noah spoke it, that made it different?

And if all would have accepted Noah's invitation and boarded the ark, what would the flood have accomplished?

And did Noah really preach to the people that the flood was coming?

Genesis 6-9

The flood

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown."[17] Angered by the wickedness of mankind, God selects Noah,[18] "a righteous man, blameless in his generation," and commands him to build an Ark, and to take on it his family and representatives of the animals.[19] God destroys the world with a Flood,[20] and afterwards enters into a covenant with Noah and his descendants, the entire human race, promising never again to destroy mankind in this way. God creates the rainbow and puts it in the sky as a sign of his promise[21] Noah plants a vineyard, drinks wine, and falls into a drunken sleep. Ham "uncovers his fathers nakedness," and Noah places a curse on Ham's son Canaan, saying that he and all his descendants shall henceforth be slaves to Ham's brothers Shem and Japheth[22]

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

15 years ago

#147

Pack93Z....God said "You shall not murder". It was pointed at US.
God does NOT "murder". Like i have said over and over, He gave the people the choice to follow Him or not. They themselves chose NOT, and thus chose their ultimate death.
You can try to blame God for that, but it's NOT fair or right. He provided the way out, to safety. He had Noah TELL the people for MANY YEARS that the flood was coming. The PEOPLE chose to instead laugh at him, make fun of him. So who's fault ultimately is it that they died?
If you stand in the middle of a busy road, and run around laughing, while someone keeps yelling to you "Get out of the road! You're gonna get run over!" And YOU decide to ignore their pleas for you to get out of the road, will you blame THEM for when you DO get run over?

"Cheesey" wrote:

Ahh I see. I get it. God told Noah and it was Noah's responsibility to spread the word, but no one believed him so in essence they "deserved" (for lack of a better term) to perish.

God directly told Noah, but no one else? If Noah told me, I'd be hesitant to believe him as well. If God told me, I'd believe him. How can that be the fault of ever man whom God feels doesn't deserve to live? It gets confusing for me there. I think I understand that God gave them a choice, but in reality, he didn't. And if they deserved to make a choice, why didn't they deserve to hear it from God instead of Noah?

God is going to flood the earth because man is not living how he wants ma nto live. Yet, he gives them a opportunity to survive? That conflicts with the proven theory that one bad apple ruins the bunch. Why risk having it all screwed up again?

Alan, I want to thank you for continuing this. I really appreciate it.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#148

Pack93Z....God said "You shall not murder". It was pointed at US.
God does NOT "murder". Like i have said over and over, He gave the people the choice to follow Him or not. They themselves chose NOT, and thus chose their ultimate death.
You can try to blame God for that, but it's NOT fair or right. He provided the way out, to safety. He had Noah TELL the people for MANY YEARS that the flood was coming. The PEOPLE chose to instead laugh at him, make fun of him. So who's fault ultimately is it that they died?
If you stand in the middle of a busy road, and run around laughing, while someone keeps yelling to you "Get out of the road! You're gonna get run over!" And YOU decide to ignore their pleas for you to get out of the road, will you blame THEM for when you DO get run over?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Ahh I see. I get it. God told Noah and it was Noah's responsibility to spread the word, but no one believed him so in essence they "deserved" (for lack of a better term) to perish.

God directly told Noah, but no one else? If Noah told me, I'd be hesitant to believe him as well. If God told me, I'd believe him. How can that be the fault of ever man whom God feels doesn't deserve to live? It gets confusing for me there. I think I understand that God gave them a choice, but in reality, he didn't. And if they deserved to make a choice, why didn't they deserve to hear it from God instead of Noah?

God is going to flood the earth because man is not living how he wants ma nto live. Yet, he gives them a opportunity to survive? That conflicts with the proven theory that one bad apple ruins the bunch. Why risk having it all screwed up again?

Alan, I want to thank you for continuing this. I really appreciate it.

"Cheesey" wrote:

"Deserved" to perish? I myself can't make that judgement, but God can. Again....they had YEARS of Noah telling them to repent. THEY chose not to. God was able to tell Noah directly because NOAH WAS LISTENING! The other people were rapped up in their own pleasures. They didn't want to listen to ANYONE. Not even God.
If you make a choice (as in to ignore God) you also "reap" the results of ignoring Him. He wanst ALL of us to accept Him. He provides the way. But if we choose to ignore, who's fault is it?
Man has a sin nature. It's born into us. That goes back to being Adam and Eve's fault.
But the blame ends there. We sin every day. And thats by our own choice. And we choose to ignore God's pleas to come to Him, and to put our faith in Him.
Every time you have someone tell you this, each person makes the choice to accept or deny. How many times in your life have you heard the gospel? Yet you still choose to not accept it. Some day we ALL will answer for our selves. We will stand before God.
My ONLY hope is for people to accept, and "Get on the ark!"
I mean, i have nothing to gain for people to listen to me, except that if they do, they will spend eternity with me, and thats why i take the time to tell people. I do want people to die without hearing the truth. I know i can't force anyone to listen, i can only hope they do.

Pack93z
Select Member

15 years ago

#149

Here is the full text, in it he doesn't speak of spreading the word via Noah.. instead choosing Noah and cleansing the rest.

Cheesey.. I hope you take this for why I question it.. and not anything against your strong beliefs.

There are many more instances with the bible and history written by man that I question.. mostly because it was interpreted by man.

http://www.bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp

Genesis 6

1 When men began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such of them as they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for he is flesh, but his days shall be a hundred and twenty years." 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown. 5 The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the LORD was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground, man and beast and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD. 9 These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation; Noah walked with God. 10 And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. 11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence. 12 And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth. 13 And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth. 14 Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch. 15 This is how you are to make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits. 16 Make a roof for the ark, and finish it to a cubit above; and set the door of the ark in its side; make it with lower, second, and third decks. 17 For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you; and you shall come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives with you. 19 And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every sort into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female. 20 Of the birds according to their kinds, and of the animals according to their kinds, of every creeping thing of the ground according to its kind, two of every sort shall come in to you, to keep them alive. 21 Also take with you every sort of food that is eaten, and store it up; and it shall serve as food for you and for them." 22 Noah did this; he did all that God commanded him.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Cheesey
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#150

Pack93Z....God said "You shall not murder". It was pointed at US.
God does NOT "murder". Like i have said over and over, He gave the people the choice to follow Him or not. They themselves chose NOT, and thus chose their ultimate death.
You can try to blame God for that, but it's NOT fair or right. He provided the way out, to safety. He had Noah TELL the people for MANY YEARS that the flood was coming. The PEOPLE chose to instead laugh at him, make fun of him. So who's fault ultimately is it that they died?

"pack93z" wrote:

To be clear, I am not trying to argue, more or less state my curiosity in blindly believing this interpretation of God's word.

So if someone today starts preaching that the world is going to end on X day unless we change are ways, what are they cast as?

So because Noah spoke it, that made it different?

And if all would have accepted Noah's invitation and boarded the ark, what would the flood have accomplished?

And did Noah really preach to the people that the flood was coming?

Genesis 6-9

The flood

"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown."[17] Angered by the wickedness of mankind, God selects Noah,[18] "a righteous man, blameless in his generation," and commands him to build an Ark, and to take on it his family and representatives of the animals.[19] God destroys the world with a Flood,[20] and afterwards enters into a covenant with Noah and his descendants, the entire human race, promising never again to destroy mankind in this way. God creates the rainbow and puts it in the sky as a sign of his promise[21] Noah plants a vineyard, drinks wine, and falls into a drunken sleep. Ham "uncovers his fathers nakedness," and Noah places a curse on Ham's son Canaan, saying that he and all his descendants shall henceforth be slaves to Ham's brothers Shem and Japheth[22]

"Cheesey" wrote:

Lets look at this realistically. If you had a neighbor who suddenly started building this HUGE thing in his yard, don't you think you would ask him what he was doing?
I bet Noah told the people passing by every day when they asked, what he was doing.
And i bet they laughed and made fun of him for it.
Also, remember, this wasn't long after man was first created. I bet there were people still alive who had actually WITNESSED things that we only read about in the Bible. Yet they were willingly ignorant, choosing to ignore God.
Look at the Israelites. They were brought out of bondage by God, yet were constantly turning their backs on God. Yet they SAW the miracles He did for them with their OWN EYES.

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