Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago
Couple of quick thoughts on that first paragraph..

1) Apparently Brett is insecure dating all the way back going into his prime.. worried that they wanted to move into the Brunnell era..

2) The last sentence of that first paragraph opened my eyes a ton... shocked almost.. apparently I forgot that line.. fast forward to today.. all I can say is wow.

3) The third highlight speaks volumes about how important Irv was to Brett... some have noted that in the past year that this wouldn't be the same if Irv was still around.. here is a nugget of proof.

Wow... I have this edition in the Packer case.. should have read it earlier.

Before I get BBQ'd here... I know that he was young then and things have changed, but I thought it was interesting.

Source... 

Brett Favre sat at the end of the Green Bay Packers' bench, stewing. It was the night of Oct. 20,1994, during a game against the Minnesota Vikings at the Metrodome, and Favre seemed perilously close to losing his starting-quarterback job. He had been sidelined after the first quarter by a bruised left hip but the way he figured it, the injury gave Green Bay coaches what they wanted: a convenient excuse to begin the Mark Brunell era. Though Brunell, Favre's lefthanded understudy, played well the rest of the game, Minnesota won 13-10 in overtime, dropping the underachieving Packers to 3-4. "Good," Favre recalls thinking. "We lose the rest of the games this year, that's fine with me."

On the flight home, coach Mike Holmgren wouldn't make a decision on Favre's future. As is his custom, Holmgren first wanted to review the game tape and consult his coaching staff. But the statistics were telling. In 38 games directing Green Bay's passer-friendly West Coast offense, the talented Favre had thrown almost as many interceptions (44) as he had touchdown passes (46). Before the season Holmgren had told Favre, "I will not hesitate to pull you if we're losing games with the same mistakes we made last year." Now Holmgren was considering benching Favre.

The next few days were dicey around Packers headquarters. In quarterbacks coach Steve Mariucci's office, Favre threw a tantrum in frustration over trying to master the complex offense. "The lowest point of his Packers career," Mariucci says. Irvin Favre, Brett's father, called Mariucci, pleading with him to urge Holmgren to ease up on Brett. "I know my son," Irvin says, "and if Mike hadn't stopped butchering him after he made a mistake, Brett would have dwindled to nothing." One of Holmgren's confidants, longtime friend Bob LaMonte, was certain Favre would be benched. "I know Mike was livid with Brett," LaMonte says. "Mike told me at the time that it was just galling to see a player of this magnitude continue to self-destruct."

At a coaches meeting that week, Holmgren polled each member of his offensive staff on who should be the starting quarterback. Brunell, whom the coaches considered a better decision-maker than Favre, won the vote. So what did Holmgren do? Later, he called Favre into his office and told him, "Buddy, it's your job." Holmgren's decision was based largely on his belief that Favre was close to mastering the offense and that the only thing holding him backa tendency to force situationswas correctable. "We're joined at the hip," Holmgren told Favre. "Either we're going to the Super Bowl together, or we're going down together."

In the 41 regular-season games since, the Packers are 30-11. Favre has thrown 101 touchdown passes and only 33 interceptions. He has twice been named league MVP, joining Joe Montana as the only back-to-back winners of the award. And Favre and Holmgren are going to the Super Bowltogether.

During a game the quarterback is the brain of any offense, and he must repeatedly make quick assessments and correct decisions. This is particularly true in the West Coast offense favored by Holmgren, who, with his expanded use of the tight end, has advanced the system created by San Diego Chargers coach Sid Gillman in the 1960s and perfected by San Francisco 49ers coach Bill Walsh in the '80s. On pass plays the quarterback may have to read three or four options in a split-second progression and then have to improvise if every option is covered.

The complexity of the system helps explain why the marriage between Holmgren and Favre was so rocky for so long. The Super Bowl will be the thoughtful Holmgren's 90th game as Packers coach, and his game plans for the first 89 contained about 1,800 plays. Favre is an act-first, think-later gunslinger who, until he reached the NFL in 1991, hadn't run something as elementary as the seven-on-seven passing drill. While at Southern Miss, he wowed the pro scouts with his derring-do and his cannon arm. Upon returning from a scouting trip to see Favre in 1990, Buffalo Bills vice president and general manager Bill Polian was asked by owner Ralph Wilson if he had seen any good players. "I just saw the NFL's next great quarterback," Polian, who is now general manager of the Carolina Panthers, replied.

But Favre, a second-round pick of the Atlanta Falcons, believed he would never supplant starter Chris Miller in Atlanta, and his propensity for partying got him on coach Jerry Glanville's bad side. When Favre arrived late for the team photo, Glanville fined him $1,500.

"I got trapped behind a car wreck," Favre claimed.

"You are a car wreck," Glanville shot back.

Nevertheless, in February 1992, new Green Bay general manager Ron Wolf dealt a first-round pick to the Falcons for Favre. As the New York Jets' director of player personnel the previous season, Wolf had been so intrigued by Favre that he wanted the Jets to draft him, but the Falcons selected him with the pick immediately ahead of New York's. Holmgren, whom Wolf had hired away from the 49ers a month before the trade, was interested in acquiring Favre, as well. "I really didn't know his reputation, but I do remember that when I'd scouted him while I was with San Francisco, I wrote in my report: 'This guy is blue-collar,' " says Holmgren. "I figured he was a throwback with a personality. And personalities as a rule don't scare me, as long as they're responsible and willing to meet me halfway."

But would Favre? He viewed Holmgren's sophisticated offense as some sort of hieroglyphics. "In the first year or so I don't think anybody on our team knew exactly what we were doing," says Favre. "I'll give you an example. We'd call Red Right, 22 Z In. I didn't care what the defense did, I was going to the Z [the flanker], and if he was covered, boom, I was gone. I was running, trying to make something happen."

It was just such a broken play that thrust Favre into the limelight. In the third game of the 1992 season, against the Cincinnati Bengals, he replaced the injured Don Majkowski and, with 13 seconds left, fired a game-winning, 35-yard touchdown pass to wideout Kitrick Taylor. "What people don't remember about that day is I should have had six or seven interceptions," says Favre. "I was all over the place." But he was also electric, and he has started every Packers game since. He finished that first season in Green Bay as a 64% passer who threw 18 touchdown passes and only 13 interceptions. But in '93 he regressed, accounting for 30 of the Pack's 34 turnovers, including 24 interceptions.

"I struggled and I struggled for a long time." Favre says. "But think about it: I got thrown into the toughest offense in the game as a starter at 22. Every other guy who's played it sat for a year or two and learned. Joe Montana sat behind Steve DeBerg. Steve Young sat behind Joe. Steve Bono sat behind both of them. Ty Detmer and Mark Brunell sat behind me. That's why it was frustrating when people would get on me."

Throughout the 1993 season and during the first seven games of the '94 schedule. Favre was the target of Holmgren's incessant, irksome ragging. "Let the system work for you!" was one of Holmgren's nicer suggestions.

"He deserved it, believe me." Holmgren says. "He would say things to me like, 'Hey, we're 9-7, and we made the playoffs. That's a pretty good year.' And I'd say, 'You want to be 9-7 your whole life? Not me. We want to win the Super Bowl here." We had a test of wills. He's a knuckle-head. His way was simply not going to be good enough. And I don't care what his father says. If I'd treated him any differently, with more sympathy, I'd have been cheating him."

Holmgren's vote of confidence after the 1994 game in Minnesota changed Favre's perspective, but his confidence still seemed shaken. "I remember Brett so clearly in my office after the decision was made," Mariucci said last week, a day after the 49ers shockingly named him their coach. "I told him. 'You've got two choices: You can go in the tank and feel sorry for yourself. Or you can buckle down, shake it off and be the best quarterback in football the rest of the season.' "

Upon hearing that, Favre replied, "The second half of the season is going to be like no other." He lived up to that promise. He threw only seven interceptions in the final nine games, led the Packers to the playoffs for the second consecutive season and turned his career around.

By 1995 Holmgren was listening to Favre more and more in the Saturday-morning game-plan sessions, a practice that carried over to the '96 season. On the day before a game, Holmgren, his three quarterbacks and quarterbacks coach Marty Mornhinweg discuss what will work best against that week's opponent. Holmgren asks everyone to submit, in order, their 15 favorite plays. Later, he retires to his hotel room to script Green Bay's early game plan. Holmgren hands out the First 15, as he labels the sheet, at the team meeting on the eve of the game. He'll ask Favre if he likes the order. "These are really good," Favre told Holmgren before the NFC Championship Game against the Panthers two weeks ago. And he wrote Holmgren's final words to him that night on the bottom of the sheet: "Relax. Play smart."

In the early going against Carolina, Favre forced a pass on a slant route to wideout Don Beebe. Linebacker Sam Mills intercepted, setting up the touchdown that gave the Panthers a 7-0 lead. "Why'd you make that throw?" Holmgren snarled as Favre came off the field.

"Four years ago," Favre says, "I'd have been crying if he questioned me like that. I just smiled to myself, called him a name to myself and went on."

That was his last throwing error of the day. One of the plays Favre and Holmgren agreed would work against the Panthers got Green Bay even. It was play number 8 of the First 15Two Jet All Go, Fake Fullback 40. "I will call this three times in the game," Holmgren had said in that Saturday-night team meeting, "and we will score a touchdown on one of them." Antonio Freeman was split left, with fellow wideout Andre Rison to Freeman's inside. Tight end Keith Jackson was outside the right tackle, and fullback Dorsey Levens was on the wing. At the snap all four players streaked toward the end zone.

"The Panthers play a lot of single-safety coverage in the middle of the field," Holmgren said last week, "and [free safety] Pat Terrell was so deep. We figured he would shade toward one of the guys, Rison or Jackson, running up the seams. Now if you run Levens out against their best corner, Eric Davisa fullback on a great cover guythey're not going to respect that. So Brett sees the corner keeping half an eye on the inside receiver. You can just see Davis conscious of the middle, getting a little lackadaisical on Dorsey."

Early in his career, Favre says, he might have tried to wedge a bullet to Rison or Jackson. "Now the only place I'm going to throw it is where Dorsey catches it or no one does," he says. Precisely. Levens skied over Davis to pull in the ball at the side of the end zone for a 29-yard score. Perfectly scripted, perfectly executed.

With Favre, though, not every big play is so beautiful to behold. In the third quarter, facing third-and-seven at the Carolina 32, he improvised, making a two-handed chest pass while being tackled by linebacker Kevin Greene. Favre had looked for Beebe on a crossing route, but Beebe hadn't been open. "I thought maybe I'd just run for it," Favre says, "but I took off and, s---, the hole closed! I started pushing Greene off as I was going down, but then I looked ahead and saw Dorsey, and I sort of pushed the ball out with my left hand just before my knees hit."

Gain of eight. First down. Holmgren just shook his head. "I thought I'd seen it all," he says.

Holmgren has seen plenty with Favre, including the inside of an addiction and dependency center. Twice during the off-season last year Holmgren traveled to the Menninger Clinic in Topeka, Kans., to see how Favre was getting on in his 6-week treatment for an addiction to painkillers. "It was pretty impressive to see Mike there," Favre says. "How many bosses visit their employees in drug rehab?"

One day during his stay, Favre says, he was angered because the doctors wouldn't give him a weekend pass to be with his girlfriend (now wife) Deanna Tynes. So he punched a hole in a wall. "Mike, I've got to get out of here," Favre said during one of Holmgren's visits. "I'm going crazy. The walls are closing in on me. And I haven't thrown a football. I've got to get ready for the season."

"Don't worry," Holmgren said. "Just take care of this. The football will take of itself. You're going to be fine."

The coach knows the quarterback pretty well.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
longtimefan
15 years ago
The only thing that made Brett great was Holmgren..

He had the tools but needed Mike to make them come out
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

The only thing that made Brett great was Holmgren..

He had the tools but needed Mike to make them come out

"longtimefan" wrote:



I would disagree, Brett had and still has a drive and competitive nature that makes players great.. Brett owes Mike in some regards, but not anymore than Mike owes Brett for helping make him the household name he is as well.

Sometimes relationships just work out mutually beneficial for both parties.. this to me is an example of one.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
15 years ago
I think, seeing how this has played out over the past couple of years, it is clear that it was just a wonderful convergence of fortune for everyone, to have Favre come to GB, have Holmgren there to coach him up the right way, have Reggie as a veteran leader, etc. in a football town where things had been so boring for so long that even the BAD excitement was good as Favre learned the ropes in the NFL.
UserPostedImage
wils0646
15 years ago

With Favre, though, not every big play is so beautiful to behold. In the third quarter, facing third-and-seven at the Carolina 32, he improvised, making a two-handed chest pass while being tackled by linebacker Kevin Greene.


The Pack Will Be Back.
TheOldMan
15 years ago
Well, you guys never should have driven Holmgren out of Green Bay. You'd have a s-load of SB trophy's by now.

You don't give Holmgren what he wants, but then turn around and give it to his assmunch assistant, Mike Sherman. I never will understand that.

(. It's interesting see how "coddled" Aaron Rodgers is compared to Favre. Why is that, I wonder?)

(And before anyone starts taking pot shots at Favre, read this..)

Another great almost quit the game amidst doubts about his ability until his OLD MAN set him straight.

That great was Mickey Mantle.
Truth be known, I'm TT's baby!
15 years ago
I bet if you polled 1,000 football fans in America, about 98% of them would say that Favre has been FAR more coddled than Rodgers.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

Well, you guys never should have driven Holmgren out of Green Bay. You'd have a s-load of SB trophy's by now.

You don't give Holmgren what he wants, but then turn around and give it to his assmunch assistant, Mike Sherman. I never will understand that.

"TheOldMan" wrote:



As much blame goes to Mike and being impatient as well.. if he would have only hung around one more year instead of pushing the issue and leaving.. one year and he would have had the keys.


(. It's interesting see how "coddled" Aaron Rodgers is compared to Favre. Why is that, I wonder?)

"TheOldMan" wrote:



Been to the camps and inside the QB meetings I see.. not happening publicly doesn't mean he doesn't get coached up.


(And before anyone starts taking pot shots at Favre, read this..)

Another great almost quit the game amidst doubts about his ability until his OLD MAN set him straight.

That great was Mickey Mantle.

"TheOldMan" wrote:



Whom is taking pot shots.. Brett is quoted in his own words.. I don't classify what I stated as a pot shot.. more a linking together of old quotes to today's events.

It is amazing how important a father figure is...
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
TheOldMan
15 years ago

I bet if you polled 1,000 football fans in America, about 98% of them would say that Favre has been FAR more coddled than Rodgers.

"MassPackersFan" wrote:



By whom, the media or the Packers?
Truth be known, I'm TT's baby!
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

Well, you guys never should have driven Holmgren out of Green Bay. You'd have a s-load of SB trophy's by now.

You don't give Holmgren what he wants, but then turn around and give it to his assmunch assistant, Mike Sherman. I never will understand that.

(. It's interesting see how "coddled" Aaron Rodgers is compared to Favre. Why is that, I wonder?)

(And before anyone starts taking pot shots at Favre, read this..)

Another great almost quit the game amidst doubts about his ability until his OLD MAN set him straight.

That great was Mickey Mantle.

"TheOldMan" wrote:



I still don't understand the giving the reigns to Sherman and not Holmgren either. Though I believe that neither should have had both hats. Separation of duties is a good thing.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (5h) : Will there be a tracker on the ball or something?
Zero2Cool (8h) : uh oh
Martha Careful (9h) : Too bad camera's can't spot the ball as well.
Mucky Tundra (11h) : So will the chain gang be gone completely or will they still be around as a backup or whatever?
Zero2Cool (11h) : The method for measuring first downs in the NFL will switch from chain gangs to camera-based technology in 2025, the league announced.
Martha Careful (14h) : A big step in the right direction. Just put in the college system is very very good.
Zero2Cool (16h) : NFL has passed a rule that allows both teams to possess the ball in OT during the regular season
Zero2Cool (16h) : Touchbacks on kickoffs will now bring the ball to the 35-yard line.
beast (31-Mar) : It might of gotten more popular recently, but braiding hair (even men) in certain cultures goes back for centuries.
Martha Careful (30-Mar) : Is men braiding their hair a new style thing? Watching the NCAA men's tournament many players have done
Zero2Cool (29-Mar) : Ha. Well, it'd be nice for folks to reset their own password. Via validated email 😏
beast (29-Mar) : Monopoly was supposed to be an educational game, that show how evil capitalism was and how we should avoid it
beast (29-Mar) : Lol, I was thinking username would be better, as then I wouldn't have to keep an email up to date lol 😂
beast (29-Mar) : Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : I was thinking email because I think it'll make folks keep it up todate lol
wpr (29-Mar) : sure is
Zero2Cool (29-Mar) : Monopoly is a rip off of The Landlord's Game
wpr (27-Mar) : 28 days until the draft
earthquake (27-Mar) : Which seemed strange to my 9 year old self, that you could be a fan for a team other than the one you play for
earthquake (27-Mar) : Nothing eventful happened, other than it being clear that he was a bengals fan
earthquake (27-Mar) : And we went and hung out with him one afternoon, I must have been 9 or so
earthquake (27-Mar) : That’s wild, when I was a kid my friend lived in the same apartment complex in De Pere
Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : Only career highspot was a 200 yard rushing game while playing for the Cardinals
Mucky Tundra (27-Mar) : He is a former Packer. Drafted out of Northern Illinois. Didn't do much in GB.
dfosterf (26-Mar) : Despicable
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : Former NFL. I think Packers too
Zero2Cool (26-Mar) : NFL RB Leshon Johnson has been charged in a massive dog fighting operation, with the FBI seizing over 190 Pit Bulls
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Some real irony of a QB as short as Wilson playing for the Giants
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Giants country, let's be the tall beings of lore!
Mucky Tundra (26-Mar) : Russell Wilson signs with the Giants.
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : I was thinking email because I think it'll make folks keep it up todate lol
wpr (25-Mar) : I don't think there is a significant difference. I use a user name for many. Others email.
Martha Careful (25-Mar) : email
Zero2Cool (25-Mar) : would it be better to use EMAIL or USERNAME to log into a site?
wpr (25-Mar) : Thanks Zero
Zero2Cool (24-Mar) : New forum has the ability to Thank a post now.
beast (24-Mar) : And the only time they have won the Championship in an even year, was the first time they did, in 2006.
beast (24-Mar) : Since 2007, there have been 10 odd numbered years, Wisconsin Women have won the Championship in 7 of those 10 odd numbered years.
buckeyepackfan (24-Mar) : Congratulations Lady Badger Hockey Team. NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!!
Zero2Cool (23-Mar) : I don't think it's completed yet. it was just announced last month, right?
dhazer (23-Mar) : did netflix ever release the Packers documentary
Zero2Cool (21-Mar) : And it is glorious!
beast (21-Mar) : Unsigned FA QB Rodgers is supposedly in the Steelers building
Martha Careful (19-Mar) : But I don't own a car! So can I still use it in my apartment?
Zero2Cool (19-Mar) : btw, new site auto updates
Zero2Cool (19-Mar) : Woohoo!
TheKanataThrilla (19-Mar) : Oops I guess I should have updated the site before posting
TheKanataThrilla (19-Mar) : Jeremy Fowler @JFowlerESPN · Follow Source: Free agent WR/return specialist Mecole Hardman is signing with the #Packers on a one-year deal.
Zero2Cool (18-Mar) : Former Packers wide receiver Bob Long, who stayed in Wisconsin after playing days, dies at age 83
Martha Careful (17-Mar) : PFOW, Pati O'Furniture
wpr (17-Mar) : Thanks dfosterf. Been a while since I heard the song.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Jan 12 @ 3:30 PM
Eagles
Recent Topics
11h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

12h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

31-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

30-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

29-Mar / Random Babble / wpr

28-Mar / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / dfosterf

28-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

26-Mar / Random Babble / Mucky Tundra

25-Mar / Random Babble / Martha Careful

24-Mar / Random Babble / packerfanoutwest

24-Mar / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

21-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.