Since you are tossin out "facts" you ignored the one that matters. The "Fact "is they were 6-10.

Ted tried to address the D-Line before this. His solution: Draft Justin Harrell who was a walking injury and let Williams walk.

This team needs more than a pass rush. What about the O-Line that Ted Thompson hasn't been able rebuild in 4 years?

Yeah, I know he's fixing the D-Line now, hopefully that goes better than the Bang-Up job he did with the boys up front or the PATHETIC ATTEMPT he made with the D-Line by drafting that waste Harrell.

By the way, the team that made the NFC Championship game isn't the exact one on the field now. You seem to be missing a certain player.

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I find it ironic you tell me I ignore the fact we were 6-10 when you refuse to acknowledge 13-3. I didn't ignore it. I said plainly that we lost a lot of games late that we could have won. Just because I don't agree that means now we suck doesn't mean I ignore what happened.

The offense had basically the same production over the past two years. A 1000 yard rusher and about 4000 yard passer. It's the same offensive line both years. Just because YOU say they suck means nothing. It means nothing because in your universe nearly all the personnel currently sucks based on everything you post.

It means nothing because you will look past everything good to drive your point home that Ted Thompson sucks. Your total lack of balance and unbias gives you an equal amount of credibility in everything you debate. None.

You come across to me like a woman scorned. Hateful, relentless, nonreconcilable, and ulitmately tiresome and dreadful to talk to.

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Wow. Just wow. +1 for this contribution, whether I agree with it or not.

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Yet you respond everytime. Doesn't that make you a whipping boy of sorts?

Whatever the case, you are welcome to your optimism. I'm not trying to push my opinions on you, yet offer a dfferent viewpoint that seems to infuriate you. The truth is you've been on the Ted Thompson bandwagon from the start, I get it. I remember debating things with you in 2005 on the old Packerforum. According to you we were going to be stocked up with talent by this time and be legitimate contenders. That hasn't exactly panned out. "Next Year" year after year gets old.

I wish GB would win just like you, I wish I was wrong about this team. If that happened I run around doing cartwheels stating "I was wrong". I don't ignore the 13-3 season. It was a good run. Unfortunately this team has seemed to regress from that campaign. Try not ignoring that fact or reverting to the "bad breaks" line.

We had penalties, lapses of intensity, and lapses of concentration. Thats going to happen when you field the youngest team in the league 3 years in a row. That falls on Ted Thompson.

In the end if you don't like my post, ignore them because I don't take anything you say as not tainted by your neverending defending of TT, and I'm sure you don't take anything I say as not tainted by my hatred of him.

Time will tell if Ted is a good GM. The clock is ticking.

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Take out the quarterbacks for a moment. Favre and Rodgers are eliminated for just a moment and you can't honestly believe that the rosters compare. Well you can, but it's not even close and most scouts would say that as well more than likely.

The receivers aren't close. Javon Walker is a joke. He was overrated here and I for one am glad Green Bay made that deal to get rid of him. I'd take Greg Jennings over Walker any day with Driver as a push. Favre made Walker.

I'd also take the Packers line from last year. Will Whititaker as the starting guard in 05.... You kidding me? That line was awful. Matt O'Dwyer and Adrian Klemm were jokes. The rest is the same.

The running game is a wash. Ahman Green was near the end of his career and near the end of his career he was know better than the current version of Ryan Grant. I like Ahman Green, but he was not the same player after he had his big year in 04.

Defensively isn't tricky either. The arguement that the 05 defense is better can be made if you never watched any games. Teams would get up on the Pack and just run out the clock in 05 whereas last year they actually had to score some points to keep pace with a top five offense at least statistically.

The secondary hands down is a win for the 08 squad.

The defensive line is basically a wash with both units being ridiculously bad.

All in all the only reason why anyone would take the 05 roster is Brett Favre. I get that and I understand that, but making the arguement for the talent top to bottom being better than last years is ridiculous.

LT makes a great point saying that they went from 4 to 13 wins in two years so why can't they go from 6 to 13 in another two years considering the talent. That's a good point, but that doesn't mean it'll be right.

Afterall, the NFL seldom works in patterns.

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Sorry Porky I disagree. First off when comparing you can't "take the QB's out of it". That makes no sense.

Secondly Green and Henderson trump Grant and Kuhn. Please tell me you are kidding.

As far as WR's go Javon Walker never regained his form after that injury in 05 but the year before burst on the scene with 12 TD's. Of course now we know the story with that but GJ could just as easily suffer the same fate. Walker pre-injury/DD vs. Jennings and DD - Wash

I'd take Franks over Lee as well. Clifton and Tauscher then beat Clifton/Tauscher now. The rest of the guys on both Lines cancel each other out. Advantage younger Clifton and Tauscher.

Offensive wise - 05' units get 4 nods. WR, QB, TE, and O-Line - 08' gets nothing.

Defensively, no doubt the CB's, Safetys of 08 take the cake. LB's are about even. Diggs was better than Poppinga and Hawk wins on the other side.

Now, the D-Line I take offense to. Grady Jackson? KGB? C'mon now. 05' D-Line all day

Defensive summary - 08 +2 for CB's and Safety's - 05 +1 for D-Line.

Special Teams = Wash.

Total - 05' 5 - 08' 2

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The problem with this theory is
A. we went 4-12 because of massive injuries. It would be like if we took a season off and went 0-16 and then decided to play the next year and won 8 games. Did we really "IMPROVE" or did the atarters just stay healthy the next year.

B. With that theory we could also fall of 7 games again. Meaning we could go -1-16???? LOL

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LOL!!!

You dont want porky to leave out the q/b ( which I agree with you on, need to use them ) but you want to use a WR that was on i/r for 15.5 games???

We have NO IDEA how he would have performed..Since he was not on the roster..

and how in the heck does Moll, Colledge, and Spitz=Klemm, Dwyer and Whittaker?

Can someone explain for what reason we're considering pre-injury teams? The 05 team was injured like crazy, and ended up 4-12. You cannot compare the opening day 05 roster because they never played to a record of 4-12. Likewise for the 08 team which also suffered a few injuries and trades.

Is the question which team had the better opening day roster or which team had more talent over the course of the season?

My thoughts are, despite whatever personal abilities, as a whole, I recall the 05 team over the course of the season as being godawful/abysmal and the 08 team as being frustrating with a potential to lose the game at any minute. But I felt less worried about losing with the 08 team.

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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

We had how many injuries in 08? And yet we (we =people that really believe in this team ) are told we are wrong..