warhawk
16 years ago
Forget NEEDS. Ted Thompson is NOT going to draft based on that.
Ted Thompson is going to draft based on which guys show the most potential to be good or even great players in future years. When you start drafting guys to fill holes you have immediately your asking for trouble.

I'm not saying a rookie cannot start or won't be valuable in their rookie year because some are but what that really says is how much more you can expect to get out of them in the future.

I will use Mario Williams as an example. He did start his rookie year but the truth is he wasn't very good. THIS year now they talk about him as a possible candidate for DPY. Now that's getting something out of a #1 pick. He did not, however, earn his keep that first year and if Houston NEEDED quality play from that DE spot that year they didn't get it anyway.

Where the big difference is in draft philosophies in NEED vs. BPA is the NEED picks NEED to be good enough to contribute right off the bat and BPA is all about YOU NEVER HAVE ENOUGH GOOD PLAYERS.

NEED is RISKY gentlemen. IF you NEED a OT and feel it is such a huge need it should be done with your 1st round pick how many players are you looking at? Three or four maybe? How many players are left on the board? HUNDREDS! You have just lowered your odds substantially by narrowing the field.

A team is ONE INJURY away from needing a quality player to step up and with the roll over in the NFL today with personnel your about a year or two away from having a completely different agenda on what you need.

Pick the best player you see out there. Good players always find a way to get on the field. I don't care how solid a team is at a certain position if a young guy comes in and performs at a higher level at a position already perceived as "solid" how can that hurt your football team when all that does is make them better?
"The train is leaving the station."
Cuz481
16 years ago
Getting Crabtree would be a nice addition, but WR isn't what they need, plus one of the current WR's would have to be gone from what is already one of the top 5 receiving groups in the league. It would only help things to have him on the field, but the team would be smarter to address the defensive needs first. A talented receiver can be found later (Donald Driver) although I know any talented player can be drafted later. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be a more wise decision to address the defensive needs first.
blank
Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
Cuz, your point would be valid, except for the fact that Jones and Martin combined contributed barely 400 yards last season. Had we lost one more WR, even for a few weeks, the results could have been disastrous. We could draft Crabtree, cut both Jones and Martin, and still probably come out ahead (in terms of yardage and TD receptions). If it came down to that, I'd go for Crabtree, cut or trade Martin, keep Jones, and draft a prospect WR somewhere in the 6th or 7th (or possibly pick up an UDFA). For that matter, I'd be tempted to trade Jones, too, if we got good value in return.
UserPostedImage
pack_in_black
16 years ago
This is a good story on Crabtree as a prospect:

LINK 

That Crabtree hasn't slipped on most draft boards is a testament both to the nature of his injury and to his complete dominance in college. No other receiver shed as many double-teams and caught the ball as cleanly (231 receptions in two years). No other top pass-catching prospect is as bigGMs describe Crabtree as "thick"and no other is as good at using his body to shield cornerbacks. Says his ex-coach, Mike Leach: "The way he can turn and put his ass on a defender really is remarkable."



As is the way he seems to have won over some NFL brass. At the combine, 16 clubs asked Crabtree about everything from dissecting defenses ("Easy," he says) to how many times a week he hits the clubs ("Maybe once"). "He's a good kid," says an NFC GM. "You can tell because his teammates loved him." And Crabtree loved them. Not because they nicknamed him Supa, but because they gave him a hard time for how he mumbled, chewed on Gatorade caps and draped himself over their shoulders like an overcoat when they shared a laugh.



But neither conversations nor tests could reveal Crabtree's most innate plus, his balance. Scouts don't measure it. They don't stand prospects on a Wii Fit and calculate which leg is dominant. But it's the most underrated aspect of a receiver's game, the reason why some break tackles and tiptoe the sideline while others don't. Crabtree learned how to keep his feet as a 4-year-old in Dallas, when he and his older brother, Keiron Stevenson, backflipped off cars, over bikes and up and down the street. "My choice was to land on my feet or on my head," he says.



To truly appreciate Crabtree's balance, scouts need only ask themselves questions and watch his film for answers. How do his shoulders look when he runs? One GM says they're always over his feet, never bobbing up and down. How does he handle contact? Very well: He broke 298 tackles last year on 97 catches. Does he stumble out of breaks? No. That's a skill honed by Leach, who would soak the practice field in Lubbock and make Crabtree cut on it. Can he adjust as he's running? Yes. One of Texas Tech's bread-and-butter plays was the tunnel screen, in which Crabtree caught a quick pass and ran along the line of scrimmage, waiting for an opening. "He's so fluid as he searches for a crease," says one AFC personnel director. "He's like a point guard." That's no coincidence. Crabtree played point so well at Carter High that Bob Knight offered him a scholarship. "He's the best receiver," says another NFC GM, "if not the best athlete."


UserPostedImage
Thanks to Pack93z for the sig!
longtimefan
16 years ago

So since in your estimation, we have no good players on this team, what will be the explanation if they win 10 or 11 games this year? Fluke? /quote]


Ummm? Are you talking to me?

"dd80forever" wrote:



I bet he is..since it seems like there is no one you like..

At leas ti get that same impression..Both you and DH never have said anything bout who you like.love only why this team sucks

"longtimefan" wrote:




Hmmmm, I guess you failed to read earlier in this thread where I praised Jennings..........

Because I said Jones and Jordy are probably not solid #2's.

So you think they are?

"dd80forever" wrote:




Right now for Jordy you cant say if he is or isnt..Not enough of playing time yet..

Jones I could see it yes, but would like to see him stay healthy

Now....


This is a praise?

Crabtree and Jennings in the future is enticing

"longtimefan" wrote:



The trouble with you and DH is that your negative posts far outweigh anything positive you guys have to say..

They way I see it ( and I think others do too) is we only see what sticks out the most, which is your negative Nancy posts

"dd80forever" wrote:




Well, let's see. Common sense dictates that you portray how you feel about the team when talking about them.

I, and DH, I assume, feel like this team is headed in the wrong direction, as the record indicated by the way.

You feel differently, thus you have more positives to say. It doesn't UPSET me you feel like you do. I disagree with your assessment of Jordy and Jones, as would ALOT of people outside of GB. I see alot of posters on here that are enamored with any marginal player GB fields. I know homerism plays a big part of it but I'm just stating my IMO, Objective view of them.


The question was "what will be the explanation if they win 10 or 11 games this year?"

I find that funny because what was the explanation when they lost 10 games last year?

Was it, "I was wrong, maybe we aren't that good"

or

"Maybe DH and Donald Driver have a point"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

It was

"We are better than we played" and "we were not a 6-10 team" and "We didn't get the breaks"

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



LOL

we already knew you think this teams sucks..You just confirmed it with your last few posts and THAT IS FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you maybe right that this team really does suck..but right now given the facts and the way the games played out for me its hard to side with you.

You put out the reasons that people feel the team went 6-10 last year..So whats yours for a 10 win seaosn? Over achieving? Lucky breaks? That is what nonstop was trying to find out

As far as the #2...I think after one season no one can say he is or isnt a #2..Look at Brett after his 1st season..I bet only a very select few thought he could be something different..Hell even the coaches wanted to bench him..

Ask this,does Jordy have the talent to be a #2..I think it is there, but question is can he use it to his advantage? You dont think he can,where as I think he can
Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
Don't mind him, LT. He lives by the old adage, "He who never hopes will never be disappointed." 😉
UserPostedImage
dd80forever
16 years ago

So since in your estimation, we have no good players on this team, what will be the explanation if they win 10 or 11 games this year? Fluke? /quote]


Ummm? Are you talking to me?

"longtimefan" wrote:



I bet he is..since it seems like there is no one you like..

At leas ti get that same impression..Both you and DH never have said anything bout who you like.love only why this team sucks

"dd80forever" wrote:




Hmmmm, I guess you failed to read earlier in this thread where I praised Jennings..........

Because I said Jones and Jordy are probably not solid #2's.

So you think they are?

"longtimefan" wrote:




Right now for Jordy you cant say if he is or isnt..Not enough of playing time yet..

Jones I could see it yes, but would like to see him stay healthy

Now....


This is a praise?

Crabtree and Jennings in the future is enticing

"dd80forever" wrote:



The trouble with you and DH is that your negative posts far outweigh anything positive you guys have to say..

They way I see it ( and I think others do too) is we only see what sticks out the most, which is your negative Nancy posts

"longtimefan" wrote:




Well, let's see. Common sense dictates that you portray how you feel about the team when talking about them.

I, and DH, I assume, feel like this team is headed in the wrong direction, as the record indicated by the way.

You feel differently, thus you have more positives to say. It doesn't UPSET me you feel like you do. I disagree with your assessment of Jordy and Jones, as would ALOT of people outside of GB. I see alot of posters on here that are enamored with any marginal player GB fields. I know homerism plays a big part of it but I'm just stating my IMO, Objective view of them.


The question was "what will be the explanation if they win 10 or 11 games this year?"

I find that funny because what was the explanation when they lost 10 games last year?

Was it, "I was wrong, maybe we aren't that good"

or

"Maybe DH and Donald Driver have a point"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

It was

"We are better than we played" and "we were not a 6-10 team" and "We didn't get the breaks"

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

"dd80forever" wrote:



LOL

we already knew you think this teams sucks..You just confirmed it with your last few posts and THAT IS FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you maybe right that this team really does suck..but right now given the facts and the way the games played out for me its hard to side with you.

You put out the reasons that people feel the team went 6-10 last year..So whats yours for a 10 win seaosn? Over achieving? Lucky breaks? That is what nonstop was trying to find out

As far as the #2...I think after one season no one can say he is or isnt a #2..Look at Brett after his 1st season..I bet only a very select few thought he could be something different..Hell even the coaches wanted to bench him..

Ask this,does Jordy have the talent to be a #2..I think it is there, but question is can he use it to his advantage? You dont think he can,where as I think he can

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:




I don't think they suck but I do feel they are average. Nothing I'm to excited about. Does this make me less of a fan?


Regarding the 10 win season I do feel like they over-achieved to a point. I also believe there were a few players from this team that are not here anymore that contributed to that success. Brett Favre, Corey Williams, etc.

I'm not pinning the 6-10 on A-Rod, so don't go all ballistic. I do feel Brett made things happen more than A-Rod did and I think people are ignoring that "It" factor and have just become stat junkies. Brett made things happen both good and bad. A-Rod just tried to make sure bad things didn't.

Corey was a valuable piece to the puzzle. Not worth but Cleveland gave him but it may of been worth it for GB to pay him if Harrell can't shake the Injury bug.


As far as the number #2 wr thing, you admit right now Jordy isn't a #2 which is what I said, and consequently what you took exception to. My point is Crabtree could come in and be easily a #2 IMO. He just has more physical ability than Jordy and Jones.
blank
longtimefan
16 years ago
you cant say he is a lock to be a #2...

Lot of people claimed that a few years a go a certain wr coming out of college was a "lock"...

In fact some of those same people thought that the Pack should have done something to take him..But New England got him..

He was suppose to be the most gifted Wr in the draft, was going to light it up..

Where is he now?

Not sure but it was Chad Jackson

Crabs might have all the tools, but lets wait till we see how he performs in the real game..

See for me I can not say a certain players is a "lock" to be anything before he is even drafted..Got to see how he does in the real world of training camp and pre season
dd80forever
16 years ago

you cant say he is a lock to be a #2...

Lot of people claimed that a few years a go a certain wr coming out of college was a "lock"...

In fact some of those same people thought that the Pack should have done something to take him..But New England got him..

He was suppose to be the most gifted Wr in the draft, was going to light it up..

Where is he now?

Not sure but it was Chad Jackson

Crabs might have all the tools, but lets wait till we see how he performs in the real game..

See for me I can not say a certain players is a "lock" to be anything before he is even drafted..Got to see how he does in the real world of training camp and pre season

"longtimefan" wrote:




Chad Jackson wasn't a first round pick? He went I believe 4th in the second round. Bad comparison.

Crabtree is pretty special IMO. All draft picks have risk. I think he has much more upside than Jordy and Jones, that's all I'm saying.
blank
TengoJuego
16 years ago
Chad Jackson was a second round pick. And the only reason he caused so much noise was because of his 40 time.

I'll agree that was a terrible comparison.
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (1h) : Packers General Manager Brian Gutekunst says Green Bay’s roster can win, even without adding anyone in the draft.
Zero2Cool (1h) : It's a poor design. New site has SignalR like our gameday chat
wpr (1h) : Ah today's Shout was very quick to post.
wpr (1h) : now 3
Zero2Cool (3h) : Who? What?
beast (11h) : What is he supposed to say? He doesn't want players currently on the team?
Martha Careful (16h) : meh
Zero2Cool (20h) : Sounds like Walker and Wyatt will be with Packers for beyond 2026
Zero2Cool (20h) : It's so awesome.
Zero2Cool (20h) : new site fan shout post fast
wpr (23h) : Slow posting in Fan shout.
wpr (23h) : Only 4
wpr (23h) : Only 4
Zero2Cool (21-Apr) : If only we had a topic to read about and discuss it. That's something new website must have!!!
dfosterf (21-Apr) : Justice Musqueda over at Acme Packing put up an excellent synopsis of the Packers 1st round options this am
wpr (19-Apr) : 5 days
beast (18-Apr) : 6 days
wpr (17-Apr) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Sunday, Jan 5 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
55m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

13h / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

17-Apr / Random Babble / wpr

16-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

13-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

12-Apr / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Zero2Cool

11-Apr / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Rockmolder

2-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

2-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

1-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

1-Apr / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

31-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

30-Mar / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

29-Mar / Random Babble / wpr

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.