play2win
11 years ago
joemailman and luigis, I agree. The point is kind of missed when looking to complete dominance in the NFL. We can contend well enough by adding some great young talent here in May, and by staying healthy and performing up to our capabilities.

We should be OK. Maybe we get hot when we need to, throughout the entire 2014 season playoffs.
DarkaneRules
11 years ago
Hard for me to answer. I just know that we won the Super Bowl when we didn't have to play the Giants or 49ers in the playoffs. We need to find out how to beat those teams. We got closer last year. I believe we are on the cusp. Red zone efficiency and front seven defensive performance are two things I will be considering the most in getting there.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
mi_keys
11 years ago

Hard for me to answer. I just know that we won the Super Bowl when we didn't have to play the Giants or 49ers in the playoffs.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules 



No, but we beat the Giants in effectively a lose and go home game in week 16 of that year.

I more or less agree with the rest of what you said, though.
Born and bred a cheesehead
DarkaneRules
11 years ago
Yeah I was just referring to the playoffs but you are right about that.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago
Yeah, the original question said "contend and win a title". We really were THAT good last season - if not for Matthews and so many others injured for the playoffs. I would hardly say losing to the Niners by 3 points under those circumstances equals getting our ass kicked. And when did we last lose to Seattle? Right, the game that got stolen from us.

So if we were THAT good with crap at Safety (I have a higher opinion than most of Burnett, but he was subpar last season for whatever reason), and if, like P2W said, as little fine tuning as getting Jairus Byrd would make us "dominant", then I think getting Matthews and Hayward back, a degree of good from Julius Peppers, having Neal, Perry, Burnett, Worthy, etc. healthier, getting Datone Jones and Daniels on the field more, did I leave anything out on D? Oh yeah, the draft hahahaha - Safety X 2 hopefully, ILB X 2 maybe, etc., how could we NOT be "dominant"? Does anybody here see us as worse than ....... anybody?

All that and San Fran and Seattle going at least a little bit in the wrong direction!
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
mi_keys
11 years ago
On topic, the level of our safety play last year was unacceptable. I'd expect that Burnett will play better and between Richardson and Hyde we will end up with improved play at safety; but will it be enough?

The level at which our safeties need to play for us to bring the Lombardi home depends on the level of play we get from the rest of the defense. We need help throughout the middle of the defense: nose tackle, inside linebacker and safety. If we add a nose tackle that contributes (difficult position for rookies) or if Raji returns to his 2010 form, I think we have the rest of the pieces in place to potentially dominate the line of scrimmage on defense.

If we dominate up front, generate consistent pressure both from collapsing the pocket and from the edge, the safety play probably just needs to improve to average. If we don't dominate up front, obviously more will fall on the safeties.
Born and bred a cheesehead
play2win
11 years ago

Yeah, the original question said "contend and win a title". We really were THAT good last season - if not for Matthews and so many others injured for the playoffs. I would hardly say losing to the Niners by 3 points under those circumstances equals getting our ass kicked. And when did we last lose to Seattle? Right, the game that got stolen from us.

So if we were THAT good with crap at Safety (I have a higher opinion than most of Burnett, but he was subpar last season for whatever reason), and if, like P2W said, as little fine tuning as getting Jairus Byrd would make us "dominant", then I think getting Matthews and Hayward back, a degree of good from Julius Peppers, having Neal, Perry, Burnett, Worthy, etc. healthier, getting Datone Jones and Daniels on the field more, did I leave anything out on D? Oh yeah, the draft hahahaha - Safety X 2 hopefully, ILB X 2 maybe, etc., how could we NOT be "dominant"? Does anybody here see us as worse than ....... anybody?

All that and San Fran and Seattle going at least a little bit in the wrong direction!

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



texas, I'll be the first to say I don't know. Maybe we pull something off with better play from Burnett and anyone who is better than MD Jennings. That would clearly be an improvement.

I just happen to think we need a truly significant upgrade in our Safety play at both FS and SS if we are to contend again. Without that, I just don't see how we can really dominate anyone.

Were we close to beating a team who has had our number for two solid years, four games over that two year span in last year's playoffs? Yes. And the team that beat us were handily dismantled by an even better team that went on to win the SB. That tells me we were quite a ways away at the end of last season.

I mentioned Byrd, an addition that didn't happen. But, had we added him, along with Peppers, yeah, then I think we enter into the "dominate" discussion. We didn't do that, and now we have to trust a rookie or rookies can carry the day. Maybe they can if Ted hits it right, and Mike and Dom insure they are well prepared.

How good do our Safeties need to be? Wow. How bad could our Safeties have been last season? I don't know if they get much worse. Anything should be an instant improvement, even letting Richardson and Banjo have a whack at it.
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

texas, I'll be the first to say I don't know. Maybe we pull something off with better play from Burnett and anyone who is better than MD Jennings. That would clearly be an improvement.

I just happen to think we need a truly significant upgrade in our Safety play at both FS and SS if we are to contend again. Without that, I just don't see how we can really dominate anyone.

Were we close to beating a team who has had our number for two solid years, four games over that two year span in last year's playoffs? Yes. And the team that beat us were handily dismantled by an even better team that went on to win the SB. That tells me we were quite a ways away at the end of last season.

I mentioned Byrd, an addition that didn't happen. But, had we added him, along with Peppers, yeah, then I think we enter into the "dominate" discussion. We didn't do that, and now we have to trust a rookie or rookies can carry the day. Maybe they can if Ted hits it right, and Mike and Dom insure they are well prepared.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



To the extent that past performance is relevant, only one of those four losses to the Niners was by any means convincing, and that was all about Kaepernick playing better against the Packers than he does against other teams. And yeah, Seattle beat them pretty bad, but I ask you, would you pick Seattle to beat even last year's injury-weakened Packers on any given Sunday? (other than when Aaron Rodgers was out, of course)

The main point is you seem to be intermingling two very different things - "contending" and being the "dominant" team. Hell, we contended last year anytime Aaron Rodgers was playing - with HIM, how could we not at least "contend"? Being the "dominant" team? That's a significantly higher standard, but one which your own words said we would be if we got no more than Jairus Byrd. Well, I agree with your words, and I go along with your more recent words that we should have a significant fix at Safety - one of the two anyway. I'm just saying, there's more than one way to skin a cat - drafting Clinton-Dix for example or maybe Pryor, or a huge step up by somebody else would equal the benefits of Byrd. Add to that all the other upgrades, and why would we not reach that level of dominance.

I can't even predict a record for the Packers next season because there simply is no team I could see the Packers losing to - we all know they will probably slip up and not go 16-0, but can you actually see ANY team as good enough to beat them?


Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
DakotaT
11 years ago
You guys always discuss the physical aspects of the football players. Why can't you ever discuss the mental aspects as well. An argument could be made that Nick Collins was our best safety because of his freakish physical ability and all the ground he could cover. But I'll take Leroy Butler because of his intelligence. When the Packers added Eugene Robinson to the fold, that safety play was incredible. I don't think the Packers have the cerebral talent at safety that we have seen in the past. It takes more than lucking out getting physical freaks like Collins. In the long haul, finding the cerebral assassins at the position is way more important.
UserPostedImage
play2win
11 years ago

To the extent that past performance is relevant, only one of those four losses to the Niners was by any means convincing, and that was all about Kaepernick playing better against the Packers than he does against other teams. And yeah, Seattle beat them pretty bad, but I ask you, would you pick Seattle to beat even last year's injury-weakened Packers on any given Sunday? (other than when Aaron Rodgers was out, of course)

The main point is you seem to be intermingling two very different things - "contending" and being the "dominant" team. Hell, we contended last year anytime Aaron Rodgers was playing - with HIM, how could we not at least "contend"? Being the "dominant" team? That's a significantly higher standard, but one which your own words said we would be if we got no more than Jairus Byrd. Well, I agree with your words, and I go along with your more recent words that we should have a significant fix at Safety - one of the two anyway. I'm just saying, there's more than one way to skin a cat - drafting Clinton-Dix for example or maybe Pryor, or a huge step up by somebody else would equal the benefits of Byrd. Add to that all the other upgrades, and why would we not reach that level of dominance.

I can't even predict a record for the Packers next season because there simply is no team I could see the Packers losing to - we all know they will probably slip up and not go 16-0, but can you actually see ANY team as good enough to beat them?

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



This is just beating a dead horse.

In 2013 we lost to SF with Rodgers, twice. We lost to CIN with Rodgers. We lost to CHI with Rodgers. In 2011 we lost to SF with Rodgers, twice. We lost to SEA, IND, NYG and MIN, all with Rodgers.

This season, we face ATL, CAR, NE, NYJ, PHI, NO, TB, BUF, MIA and SEA outside of our division. Hell yeah I can see us losing to a number of those teams, not to mention our division rivals. We've proven to be one of the worst defenses in the NFL. That is a lot to fix in one year.

Just because we may wind up with a really good draft means nothing. Last season, I thought that could have been Ted Thompson's best draft ever. At least this offseason, we added one proven talent to help shore up an area of need in Peppers, and another in an attempt to bolster our DL further in Guion, who I really know nothing about, other than being 6-4 315 with 26 tackles 3 sacks, 1 FF and 2 PDs over a two year span.

Much more than a good-great draft has to go right for our Packers.
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