Zero2Cool
11 years ago

I expected this a while ago. My answer is I don't have the time to memorize every FA who is available and then follow them on their current teams. Sorry. If that was my job I wouldn't be hanging around here and discussing it with you rabble. [grin1]

However you can't tell me in the past few years there has been no one all of the NFL that Ted couldn't have signed.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



If there was someone worth remembering, you would, that is pretty much my point, lol. Example, I wanted Chris Canty when we started to implement the 3 - 4 and even said we should overpay marginally to get him. Didn't happen and probably a good thing too. I think the Packers should have tried trading Aaron Kampman. I think we all knew that just wasn't going to work out, even though he led the team in QB pressures/hurries until injured.

There always players a General Manager can sign. Does that mean the player does want to sign? Does that mean they will sign? Nope, it takes two as you no doubt are fully aware.

When wanting to acquire a free agent there are lots of questions. Why is he available? Why doesn't his team want him anymore or why doesn't he want that team anymore?

You just don't see too many players who have worn out their welcome that turn out to be Charles Woodson for you, but it seems Packers fans think since Thompson did well with Woodson and Ryan Pickett that it means there are one or two players every year of similar caliber. Simply put, that year was the exception, not the rule.
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QCHuskerFan
11 years ago

If there was someone worth remembering, you would, that is pretty much my point, lol. Example, I wanted Chris Canty when we started to implement the 3 - 4 and even said we should overpay marginally to get him. Didn't happen and probably a good thing too. I think the Packers should have tried trading Aaron Kampman. I think we all knew that just wasn't going to work out, even though he led the team in QB pressures/hurries until injured.

There always players a General Manager can sign. Does that mean the player does want to sign? Does that mean they will sign? Nope, it takes two as you no doubt are fully aware.

When wanting to acquire a free agent there are lots of questions. Why is he available? Why doesn't his team want him anymore or why doesn't he want that team anymore?

You just don't see too many players who have worn out their welcome that turn out to be Charles Woodson for you, but it seems Packers fans think since Thompson did well with Woodson and Ryan Pickett that it means there are one or two players every year of similar caliber. Simply put, that year was the exception, not the rule.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Excellent post! Let's look at a specific example of a upper 2nd tier FA that was available last year. He was one of the best OLB available in FA. He signed an 8M guaranteed contract with the Colts. His name? Erik Walden. The same player that GB fans couldn't stand and roasted nearly weekly. He is now on his 5th team in his career. He has 2 sacks on the year. Think the Colts are wishing they had signed more players like him?

Woodson is a probable HOF player. But when he left Oakland, he was a declining malcontent. Ted Thompson wasn't signing a stud HOF player. He had not played a full season in 4 years. He had 2 INT in his last 2 years. I would rate Woodson as a 2nd tier player in 2006 when he signed with GB. Then it clicked.

I lived near St Louis when Pickett was signed by the Pack. Nobody in St Louis was upset. He was nothing special, just a player. I would say that is a fair evaluation. Did you know he has only caused 1 fumble in his career? In 13 seasons, he has a total of 9.5 sacks. Not exactly the kind of player that you build around.

In my opinion, Woody and Pickett were the signing equivalent of Saturday and Benson. But sometimes things just work.
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buckeyepackfan
11 years ago
Wonder how many Seattle players would end up injured if they weren't taking illegal substances?

What is the count now? 8 suspensions/impending suspensions since Carroll has been coach.

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wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
11 years ago

If there was someone worth remembering, you would, that is pretty much my point, lol. Example, I wanted Chris Canty when we started to implement the 3 - 4 and even said we should overpay marginally to get him. Didn't happen and probably a good thing too. I think the Packers should have tried trading Aaron Kampman. I think we all knew that just wasn't going to work out, even though he led the team in QB pressures/hurries until injured.

There always players a General Manager can sign. Does that mean the player does want to sign? Does that mean they will sign? Nope, it takes two as you no doubt are fully aware.

When wanting to acquire a free agent there are lots of questions. Why is he available? Why doesn't his team want him anymore or why doesn't he want that team anymore?

You just don't see too many players who have worn out their welcome that turn out to be Charles Woodson for you, but it seems Packers fans think since Thompson did well with Woodson and Ryan Pickett that it means there are one or two players every year of similar caliber. Simply put, that year was the exception, not the rule.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



nope I don't remember Canty as a FA. Sorry. I don't remember desperately wanting to sign him.

yes I am aware.

of course there are many reasons. I trust the GM to be able to distinguish.

never did I say 1 or 2 FAs a year. I said 1 or 2 players every 2-3 years. Huge difference.


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play2win
11 years ago
FA is as hit or miss as is the draft. I think the bigger problem is the lack of true balance with talent acquisition. All we really add are draft picks and UDFAs. Many of our other FA signings have been in the lower tiers with the exception of Saturday and Benson, who we whiffed on.

Looking at record alone for the past 3 seasons is almost akin to turning a blind eye to the other areas of need that have gone unaddressed through FA or trade, as Rodgers, we've realized clearly overcompensated for those areas left without talent upgrades both on offense and on defense.

A GM can't get his entire team via the draft, and expect them all to be better than other teams who apply a more balanced approach. I question how many games we would have won, how successful we would have been without Pickett and Woodson over that span, two very important FA acquisitions. Holding dear to your picks and re-signing them can create problems as well, as we've seen with AJ Hawk and Brad Jones. I believe a balance of draft choices, veteran FAs and key trades for players at positions of great need might prove to be a better solution to rounding out and improving this Packers team.

How effective is it to re-sign your own players when they've proven to have been unable to close the deal? Unable to stop better talent? Unable to beat the contenders, the teams who have gone onto win SBs? We knew coming into this season that OT, LB and S were huge issues. We really lucked out with the play of Bakhtiari. Many of us knew Brad Jones was not the answer in the middle, and questioned the players we had lined up at FS. When Bulaga went down, we really ought to have added a high quality player there via trade or FA. Knowing we weren't adding FS via the draft, we should have made a trade, and Jairus Byrd was available. I would guess a Byrd trade could have easily netted us two more wins, maybe three this season.

Trades are tough, as it takes two to Tango. I'm not saying this is easy, at all. The FA thing, as I said, is as hit or miss as the draft. But, it would be nice to see them trying. Our staff should have been able to readily see our shortcomings that Rodgers overcame with his own play, and those areas of the team should have been addressed a bit more aggressively. Its not like we are going to have Rodgers forever. Gotta strike while the iron is hot, and Aaron was indeed hot.

Balance. That would be nice to see.

And, as the article attests, "developing players like no one else…" I just don't see it. Our player development looks somewhat marginal under McCarthy, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
nerdmann
11 years ago

FA is as hit or miss as is the draft. I think the bigger problem is the lack of true balance with talent acquisition. All we really add are draft picks and UDFAs. Many of our other FA signings have been in the lower tiers with the exception of Saturday and Benson, who we whiffed on.

Looking at record alone for the past 3 seasons is almost akin to turning a blind eye to the other areas of need that have gone unaddressed through FA or trade, as Rodgers, we've realized clearly overcompensated for those areas left without talent upgrades both on offense and on defense.

A GM can't get his entire team via the draft, and expect them all to be better than other teams who apply a more balanced approach. I question how many games we would have won, how successful we would have been without Pickett and Woodson over that span, two very important FA acquisitions. Holding dear to your picks and re-signing them can create problems as well, as we've seen with AJ Hawk and Brad Jones. I believe a balance of draft choices, veteran FAs and key trades for players at positions of great need might prove to be a better solution to rounding out and improving this Packers team.

How effective is it to re-sign your own players when they've proven to have been unable to close the deal? Unable to stop better talent? Unable to beat the contenders, the teams who have gone onto win SBs? We knew coming into this season that OT, LB and S were huge issues. We really lucked out with the play of Bakhtiari. Many of us knew Brad Jones was not the answer in the middle, and questioned the players we had lined up at FS. When Bulaga went down, we really ought to have added a high quality player there via trade or FA. Knowing we weren't adding FS via the draft, we should have made a trade, and Jairus Byrd was available. I would guess a Byrd trade could have easily netted us two more wins, maybe three this season.

Trades are tough, as it takes two to Tango. I'm not saying this is easy, at all. The FA thing, as I said, is as hit or miss as the draft. But, it would be nice to see them trying. Our staff should have been able to readily see our shortcomings that Rodgers overcame with his own play, and those areas of the team should have been addressed a bit more aggressively. Its not like we are going to have Rodgers forever. Gotta strike while the iron is hot, and Aaron was indeed hot.

Balance. That would be nice to see.

And, as the article attests, "developing players like no one else…" I just don't see it. Our player development looks somewhat marginal under McCarthy, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Acquire all the players you want. If your unit is less than the sum of its parts, you still get what we have.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
play2win
11 years ago

Acquire all the players you want. If your unit is less than the sum of its parts, you still get what we have.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



I guess that's what's really the issue, the sum of its parts. I would say we are deficient. OL, MLB, DL and S. Rodgers has been the most sacked QB dating back to 2009. Our OL talent has been a real mess. On defense, we are missing tackles like never before, our DL is not getting home to the QB, and they are failing to stop the run, our MLBs are leaving the middle of the field wide open and unable to adequately cover, and our Safeties are playing at a subpar level, giving up record numbers of +20 plays.

What does that add up to? Bring in some better talent and our numbers improve.
musccy
11 years ago



There always players a General Manager can sign. Does that mean the player does want to sign? Does that mean they will sign? Nope, it takes two as you no doubt are fully aware.

...Woodson and Ryan Pickett that it means there are one or two players every year of similar caliber. Simply put, that year was the exception, not the rule.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Two best points in this thread. I get the general sentiments and the feeling that Ted is sitting on his hands in F.A. However...

Stephen Jackson was someone Ted targeted. He low balled him, which is why he didn't come to G.B. How many more times have there been FAs been sought after by Ted, but the FA wasn't interested? We can't know that - it doesn't mean Ted and co. are balking at that market, though.

Using the Jackson example to expand on Zero's second point, Ted valued Jackson correctly, and in hindsight, the Packers are in a much better position w/o him on the roster now. Furthermore, Benson and Saturday WERE Woodson and Pickett caliber players (maybe a smidge older, but I'd say "comparable tier"), they were vets, reasonably priced, all the things people are clamoring for in this thread. They just don't always pan out. We saw the same thing with "Hardly" Nickerson and Joe Johnson back with Sherman.


play2win
11 years ago

Two best points in this thread. I get the general sentiments and the feeling that Ted is sitting on his hands in F.A. However...

Stephen Jackson was someone Ted targeted. He low balled him, which is why he didn't come to G.B. How many more times have there been FAs been sought after by Ted, but the FA wasn't interested? We can't know that - it doesn't mean Ted and co. are balking at that market, though.

Using the Jackson example to expand on Zero's second point, Ted valued Jackson correctly, and in hindsight, the Packers are in a much better position w/o him on the roster now. Furthermore, Benson and Saturday WERE Woodson and Pickett caliber players (maybe a smidge older, but I'd say "comparable tier"), they were vets, reasonably priced, all the things people are clamoring for in this thread. They just don't always pan out. We saw the same thing with "Hardly" Nickerson and Joe Johnson back with Sherman.


Originally Posted by: musccy 



Pickett was the leading tackler for DL in the NFL when we signed him, in the prime of his career. Woodson was also in the prime of his career with all kinds of room to grow. We reaped incredible benefits from both signings. Both Saturday and Benson were has-beens, both at the end of their careers, and we saw what that kind of bargain hunting did for us.

We need top talent if we are to be a top level team. With Rodgers going down, it is clear that we do not have that at many important positions on this Packers team. Fill just a couple of those gaping holes, and the landscape changes drastically. Sure, there is risk involved in making a trade or signing a FA, but with the risk, and some careful vetting, there can be great reward, like we witnessed with Pick and Charles all those years ago.

If we simply do not try simply based on firmly held D&D principles, then I believe we are eliminating a very important aspect of talent acquisition, and our team suffers as a result. Our ability to be successful, truly successful, is hindered. If we cannot compete to the level of our competitors, then we are not successful. It is blatantly clear this current team is not on the same level as many others in today's NFL. That's because we are constantly trying to develop young draftees and UDFAs, ignoring some highly skilled players that could be ours with some doing. Add to that, our player development in a few position groups is highly suspect.

A more balanced approach, adding some proven talent through FA and trades, along with sound drafting might prove more effective in making us truly competitive again. Assuming some risk there could be a good thing. Currently, we don't assume any, because we are always fishing the bottom of the talent pool in FA, and we don't make those important and difficult trades.
QCHuskerFan
11 years ago

Woodson was also in the prime of his career with all kinds of room to grow.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Absolutely. As long as you define 'Prime' as constantly injured and underperforming. Look at his career. What we got in GB was 180 degrees from what he was producing in Oakland. You could not predict how he did in GB by how he did in Oakland. He was a marginal signing. How many players take a big leap forward in their 9th year in the league? He did. Think Ted Thompson can count on that with all future signings?

Prime of his career? 😆

Jackson is a prime example of what is available in the 'highly skilled' FA market. He is injured and hitting career lows for Atlanta. He might end up leading the league in rushing. I might flap my arms and fly to the moon. Both are about equally likely.
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