MintBaconDrivel
11 years ago

Green Bay — John Schneider worked for six seasons as the top personnel aide to Green Bay Packers general manager Ted Thompson. In that time, Schneider certainly learned the value of the NFL draft.

But when Schneider got his chance to run the Seattle Seahawks in 2010, he also took a broader approach to his job.

In the time since, Schneider has traded for running back Marshawn Lynch, defensive end Chris Clemons and wideout Percy Harvin. Schneider signed notable free agents such as defensive end Cliff Avril and cornerback Brandon Browner. And he's drafted extremely well, hitting home runs with players such as Russell Wilson, Earl Thomas and Russell Okung.

Seattle was 5-11 the season before Schneider assumed his general manager duties. Now, it has the NFC's best record.

John Dorsey served for two decades in Green Bay's scouting department. Then in January, he took the general manager job in Kansas City.



As of early November, Green Bay had a remarkable 50 players on its roster that had never played for another organization. At the time, Baltimore and Dallas were next with 41, while Atlanta and Miami had 40.

JSOnline  wrote:


Delivering the latest and most important updates on the Green Bay Packers for your convenience.
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
11 years ago

In three of the last four seasons, Thompson hasn't signed an unrestricted free agent. And the last significant player Thompson acquired via trade was running back Ryan Grant in 2007.

Still, don't look for Thompson to deviate too far from the script he's used for nearly a decade now.


same story 

It is not good to be too far to either extreme. You can't have a whole roster of free agents and trades and you can't have a roster that is exclusively your own players only. Someone out there is better than the 25th or 45th or 53rd player on your current roster.
UserPostedImage
The_Green_Ninja
11 years ago
The Seahawks are looking to win now. In 5 years they will be average and declining. The Packers will be good for the next 10 years. So which is better? I know that at some points there wont be a "super team" and thoes times are more than not in the current nfl. The packers will win again when, much like 2010, there isn't a super team. Just a team that's really good and will win
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
11 years ago

The Seahawks are looking to win now. In 5 years they will be average and declining. The Packers will be good for the next 10 years. So which is better? I know that at some points there wont be a "super team" and thoes times are more than not in the current nfl. The packers will win again when, much like 2010, there isn't a super team. Just a team that's really good and will win

Originally Posted by: The_Green_Ninja 



Win now. Who knows what will happen 5 years from now. GB could get 3 7th round picks that turn into Hofers. Their first round pick for the next 5 years could have problems of one kind or another.

All we have is today. GB needs to put the best team they can out on the field this year. I hope you realize I am not saying max out the salary cap so they have no flexibility to do anything next year.
UserPostedImage
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago
The Packers had the extreme luxury of having the best QB in the league. Thus, they were able to fart around like some minor league team, developing players - from nothing to mediocre when successful, from nothing to nothing when the developing didn't go so well (McMillian for example).

This is NOT something to brag about. The injury to Rodgers exposed the fallacy of the whole thing, and the badness as a GM of the man behind it.

A little of that draft and develop thing is, of course, good, but relying on it almost 100% makes a team basically substandard - as the Packers have clearly been since Rodgers was injured.

The success of Schneider and Dorsey also highlights the fact that there is a better way.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
sschind
11 years ago
I'ts interesting to see the way Schneider and Dorsey have gone and if McKenzie can last a few years in Oakland it will give another glimpse of the D&D vs trade and FA debate. Most telling to me is that the trade and FA seems to be bearing more fruit right now with Seattle success and the recent rise of KC (we will see if KC continues to rise) and the Packers recent woes. (I said recent so don't bring up the SB in 2010. Keep in mind TTs two biggest FA acquisitions Pickett and Woodson had a lot to do with that as well)

We have all seen the way the assistant web get cast among coaches. The first I was ever really made aware of it was with Bill Walsh. It seemed like every third coach in the NFL had direct ties to Walsh for a while. Then it was Mike Holmgren and then it was Bill Parcels. This is the first time I am really aware of it in the upper management rankings however. Obviously a lot of that is because how many of us can name the GM of more than 4 or 5 teams at most. We just don't have the daily exposure to them as we do the coaches unless we seek the information out. Still its interesting to see how former Packer scouts and directors approach their jobs now they are the top dogs. Like I said earlier it is very interesting to see that, at least for now, they have seemed to stray from the masters teachings. (Note I use the term master in relation to their former boss and not to imply Thompson is a master GM)

Who knows, maybe once they reach that golden point they will fall into the D&D mode. I do think FA and trading is a way to build your team quicker as long as you are smart about it. That means not signing hyped up players that have played one good year out of 4 but rather looking for steady to rising players that are more affordable (think Moneyball) with potential to be reached. I am not convinced it is the best way to develop your team for he long haul if you continue with that as your main strategy. For that I think D&D is best for the main part of the plan. Notice I said main part.

Like many things is not wise to put all your eggs in one basket. Sometimes it may be better to sign that 2nd or even third tier FA DB than to trade down and take a safety in the 6th and 7th round. If you have the confidence in your staff to develop those rookies why wouldn't you have the confidence in them to bring out the best in that FA who has been a very good nickle back and part time starter for another team for the last three years.

I do think that if there is a FA out there that Ted Thompson thinks will help the team and not hamper future negotiations by tying up money he will get him. If Ted Thompson sees a guy that he has to have I think he will find a way to get him. Some people act as if he has a "NEVER EVER sign a free agent" code of conduct and that is simply not true. He just has a much stricter or at least much different, set of conditions that must be met to make a FA acquisition the right move. There just hasn't been that guy that he has to have.
QCHuskerFan
11 years ago
No doubt. There is no one smarter than the Seahawks. They signed Percy Harvin! Brilliant move! 14M guaranteed! They are so smart! Rumor has it he may play this year... Maybe. But maybe never.

Schneider took over a team that was 7-9 in 2010. Of course he had holes to fill. So he signs Free Agents. Comparing what he did with a 7-9 team and what Ted Thompson has done with a team that has been a Super Bowl pick each of the last 3 years is apples and oranges.

Seattle's biggest advantage is they are paying their 'franchise QB' less than a million a year. They have more money to pay to buy miracle cures. In 2 years, they will hit Cap Hades when they look to give Wilson 20M a year. But for now, it's easy to think they have all the answers.

The Seahawks have won nothing yet. Remember how many SB's are won by going 15-1 in the regular season?

How many teams survive the loss of their 'Franchise QB' to injury? How'd it work for the Colts in 2011? 2013- Schaub fell apart and the Texans are going to #1 pick? Bears are 4-2 with a Healthy Cutler and 2-4 without. Washington 2012- Healthy QB & 10-6. 2013- Recovering QB and 3-9. Yes, the Patriots did it when Brady went down. But how often does that happen?

10-6 Super Bowl Champs
15-1
11-5
Arguing the system doesn't work, when faced with the above 3 year record, is just foolish.

Think the Broncos are 10-2 with Zac Dysert or Brock Osweiler at QB? They have a combined 2 years of experience sitting on a NFL bench. Think the Seahawks are going 11-1 with Tarvaris Jackson at QB?
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago
You can find flaws in the apparent success of teams doing it differently, but the most relevant thing is the colossal mess the Packers are in right now in terms of widespread mediocrity which has led to a weak and losing team once the key jenga piece was removed.

Nobody is saying (at least I'm not saying) go wild in the free agent or trade market. I'd just like to see better players drafted - maybe some trading up instead of always down. The one time I can remember we did that, we got Clay Matthews. I don't know if it was predictable or not that guys like Raji, J. Harrell, Sherrod, Perry, probably even Bulaga would not perform like first rounders, but I can say, a lot of other teams have gotten a lot of better players with no better draft position than the Packers.

What is the opposite of draft and develop? Not free agency and trades. The opposite is drafting guys with track records of high performance in college - obviously Rodgers and Matthews, but also Nelson, Cobb, Lacy. It was predictable that those guys would succeed. Look at the positions of weakness on this team - a bunch of unknowns for the most part who were either drafted or signed, and if they developed at all, they leveled off at mediocrity.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
11 years ago

I'ts interesting to see the way Schneider and Dorsey have gone and if McKenzie can last a few years in Oakland it will give another glimpse of the D&D vs trade and FA debate. Most telling to me is that the trade and FA seems to be bearing more fruit right now with Seattle success and the recent rise of KC (we will see if KC continues to rise) and the Packers recent woes. (I said recent so don't bring up the SB in 2010. Keep in mind TTs two biggest FA acquisitions Pickett and Woodson had a lot to do with that as well)

We have all seen the way the assistant web get cast among coaches. The first I was ever really made aware of it was with Bill Walsh. It seemed like every third coach in the NFL had direct ties to Walsh for a while. Then it was Mike Holmgren and then it was Bill Parcels. This is the first time I am really aware of it in the upper management rankings however. Obviously a lot of that is because how many of us can name the GM of more than 4 or 5 teams at most. We just don't have the daily exposure to them as we do the coaches unless we seek the information out. Still its interesting to see how former Packer scouts and directors approach their jobs now they are the top dogs. Like I said earlier it is very interesting to see that, at least for now, they have seemed to stray from the masters teachings. (Note I use the term master in relation to their former boss and not to imply Thompson is a master GM)

Who knows, maybe once they reach that golden point they will fall into the D&D mode. I do think FA and trading is a way to build your team quicker as long as you are smart about it. That means not signing hyped up players that have played one good year out of 4 but rather looking for steady to rising players that are more affordable (think Moneyball) with potential to be reached. I am not convinced it is the best way to develop your team for he long haul if you continue with that as your main strategy. For that I think D&D is best for the main part of the plan. Notice I said main part.

Like many things is not wise to put all your eggs in one basket. Sometimes it may be better to sign that 2nd or even third tier FA DB than to trade down and take a safety in the 6th and 7th round. If you have the confidence in your staff to develop those rookies why wouldn't you have the confidence in them to bring out the best in that FA who has been a very good nickle back and part time starter for another team for the last three years.

I do think that if there is a FA out there that Ted Thompson thinks will help the team and not hamper future negotiations by tying up money he will get him. If Ted Thompson sees a guy that he has to have I think he will find a way to get him. Some people act as if he has a "NEVER EVER sign a free agent" code of conduct and that is simply not true. He just has a much stricter or at least much different, set of conditions that must be met to make a FA acquisition the right move. There just hasn't been that guy that he has to have.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



nice post. I don't know if anyone thinks that I say Ted will never ever grab a FA. I don't mean to imply that. But with 50 players on the team who have not played elsewhere he is extremely reluctant. I look for a little moderation. Just a FA or 2 every 2-3 years. Not the break the bank guys. they almost never pan out at least not over their full contract. These the guys who can start or be the first back up while the younger players actually have time to develop. The hype on players tends to come from fans and media. I doubt any GM worth his salt ever is swayed by the mindless rabble.

QCHusker- Selecting FAs which is what Ted did in the first few years helped get GB to the SB. Moving away from it has not helped them get back there. A few more quality players at key positions would make a huge difference in this team even without Aaron. They don't have them. They have a bunch of kids with little or no experience trying to make the jump from NCAA to NFL and they are struggling.

I love how people who never want GB to pick up a FA always go for the highest profile players at the highest price in order to try and prove a point. In doing so you prove that you are not listening (or reading) what others are saying (or typing) The majority of people on this site at least that would like to see FA acquisitions that are 2nd tier even 3rd tier players. They won't put GB ion a financial bind and they can certainly add to the overall strength of the team.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
11 years ago
What Free Agents could the Packers have signed that would have made a difference? I can't recall anyone worth their signed salary that would have contributed much if at all.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.
Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame
dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.
dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?
Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade
dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Beats the hell out of a Vikings signing
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
6-Jul / Random Babble / Martha Careful

4-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

2-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

2-Jul / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

1-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Jun / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

23-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Jun / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

16-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

15-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

14-Jun / Around The NFL / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.