sschind
11 years ago



You just don't see too many players who have worn out their welcome that turn out to be Charles Woodson for you, but it seems Packers fans think since Thompson did well with Woodson and Ryan Pickett that it means there are one or two players every year of similar caliber. Simply put, that year was the exception, not the rule.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



So you are saying that in any given year there are not at least 2 players in free agency that are the caliber of players Woodson and Pickett were. I call serious BS on that one. Not that the Packers necessarily have a shot at those players for some of the other reasons you mentioned but that must mean that Ted Thompson is by far the best GM that ever was because he alone found the only two good free agents that there have been in the last 10 years (or whatever it has been)
musccy
11 years ago

Pickett was the leading tackler for DL in the NFL when we signed him, in the prime of his career. Woodson was also in the prime of his career with all kinds of room to grow. We reaped incredible benefits from both signings. Both Saturday and Benson were has-beens, both at the end of their careers, and we saw what that kind of bargain hunting did for us.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Woodson was a known malcontent who begrudgingly went to the Packers when nobody else would pay him. Only through revisionist history can we say that he was an obvious choice to add to the team, or that Saturday and Benson were clearly going to be duds. Joe Johnson was one of the top DL in the league prior to signing with the Packers and was about as successful here as Haynesworth was post TN.

Again, I get the general sentiments, but Ted has made strides in F.A., just not ones to break the bank. Someone already mentioned the benefits of adding kicking FAs to give Crosby competition, and he gets no credit for the benefit of those "acquisitions." Walden had flashes when he first joined the team, I'd even argue that Benson showed promise prior to his injury.

IMO, the issue isn't with the strategy/philosophy. It has worked for this organization before. The issue has been that the talent eval the last two drafts and FA classes has not been up to par.
Zero2Cool
11 years ago

So you are saying that in any given year there are not at least 2 players in free agency that are the caliber of players Woodson and Pickett were. I call serious BS on that one.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



You can call BS all you want, but simply because there are two players of their caliber, doesn't mean they WANT to sign with the Packers. Remember, it takes two. That is what I am saying and what most seem to ignore.


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steveishere
11 years ago

So you are saying that in any given year there are not at least 2 players in free agency that are the caliber of players Woodson and Pickett were. I call serious BS on that one. Not that the Packers necessarily have a shot at those players for some of the other reasons you mentioned but that must mean that Ted Thompson is by far the best GM that ever was because he alone found the only two good free agents that there have been in the last 10 years (or whatever it has been)

Originally Posted by: sschind 



No, I think he's saying there aren't players like that EVERY year not just in any given year. I can't really think of many FA since Woodson who went on to have a hall of fame career with their new team. Also throw in that Woodson wasn't at the time considered an elite player so they didn't even have to pay him an elite top dollar price tag. If anyone is seriously expecting to get another Woodson like signing anytime soon they are simply being unreasonable.
play2win
11 years ago

Absolutely. As long as you define 'Prime' as constantly injured and underperforming. Look at his career. What we got in GB was 180 degrees from what he was producing in Oakland. You could not predict how he did in GB by how he did in Oakland. He was a marginal signing. How many players take a big leap forward in their 9th year in the league? He did. Think Ted Thompson can count on that with all future signings?

Prime of his career? 😆

Jackson is a prime example of what is available in the 'highly skilled' FA market. He is injured and hitting career lows for Atlanta. He might end up leading the league in rushing. I might flap my arms and fly to the moon. Both are about equally likely.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



Charles Woodson before signing with GB in 2006: 4-Time Pro Bowl player, 29 years old, played in all 2003 playoff games and SB with cracked fibula-still recorded an INT in the SB, was on the outs with coach Bill Callahan his last two years in OAK after they designated him their Franchise Player. So, yeah, "PRIME."

It was indeed a risk Ted took in signing him, and it paid big dividends. I never said you could predict exactly how a player will perform with your team once signed. I clearly stated there was risk involved with any FA signing.

Can Ted count on the kind of return he received with Woodson on "all future signings?" Are you freaking kidding me? Of course not! You won't reap any of those benefits if you simply stop trying, stop signing FAs and making trades because you are holding to a strict draft & develop maxim. Hold to such a rigid stance, and you'll never reap any of those benefits. Ever.
play2win
11 years ago

Woodson was a known malcontent who begrudgingly went to the Packers when nobody else would pay him. Only through revisionist history can we say that he was an obvious choice to add to the team, or that Saturday and Benson were clearly going to be duds. Joe Johnson was one of the top DL in the league prior to signing with the Packers and was about as successful here as Haynesworth was post TN.

Again, I get the general sentiments, but Ted has made strides in F.A., just not ones to break the bank. Someone already mentioned the benefits of adding kicking FAs to give Crosby competition, and he gets no credit for the benefit of those "acquisitions." Walden had flashes when he first joined the team, I'd even argue that Benson showed promise prior to his injury.

IMO, the issue isn't with the strategy/philosophy. It has worked for this organization before. The issue has been that the talent eval the last two drafts and FA classes has not been up to par.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Who said it was "an obvious choice?" You did. Those are your words, not mine.

DEs Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett looked to be playing pretty well for SEA the other night… both 2012 FA acquisitions. Avril has 7.5 sacks, Bennett 6.5 for them. How about Chris Clemons? He's only had 37 sacks since SEA traded for him with PHI in 2010.

37!

Can't win if you don't play.
play2win
11 years ago

No, I think he's saying there aren't players like that EVERY year not just in any given year. I can't really think of many FA since Woodson who went on to have a hall of fame career with their new team. Also throw in that Woodson wasn't at the time considered an elite player so they didn't even have to pay him an elite top dollar price tag. If anyone is seriously expecting to get another Woodson like signing anytime soon they are simply being unreasonable.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



So, a "Franchise Player" is not an elite player? 4-Time pro Bowler? He fought through 3 injury plagued seasons at the end of his tenure in OAK, while helping them reach the SB, and they still franchised him…

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that a player "might" realize career highs after you sign him, like we saw with Woodson, like SEA is seeing with Chris Clemons… our team won't know though if we don't even make the attempt. We'll just continue to be one of the youngest teams in the NFL, and hope that maybe, maybe we catch lightning in a bottle, I'm not going to say "again," but without FA signings like Pickett and Woodson.
QCHuskerFan
11 years ago

Charles Woodson before signing with GB in 2006: 4-Time Pro Bowl player, 29 years old, played in all 2003 playoff games and SB with cracked fibula-still recorded an INT in the SB, was on the outs with coach Bill Callahan his last two years in OAK after they designated him their Franchise Player. So, yeah, "PRIME."

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Woodson appeared in 4 Pro Bowls with Oakland. 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001. He had a great start to his career, I agree. 5 years after his last Pro Bowl, he signed with the Packers. So you're saying 5 years after they peak, a player is still prime?

Average career length of a 1st round pick is 9.3 years. Woodson was entering his 9th year when GB signed him. His last 4 years were the worst of his 8 year career. He was coming off a seson in which he played only 6 games due to injury.

What part of this don't you understand? Woodson was washed up.
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musccy
11 years ago

Who said it was "an obvious choice?" You did. Those are your words, not mine.

DEs Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett looked to be playing pretty well for SEA the other night… both 2012 FA acquisitions. Avril has 7.5 sacks, Bennett 6.5 for them. How about Chris Clemons? He's only had 37 sacks since SEA traded for him with PHI in 2010.

37!

Can't win if you don't play.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



"Woodson was also in the prime of his career with all kinds of room to grow. We reaped incredible benefits from both signings. Both Saturday and Benson were has-beens, both at the end of their careers, and we saw what that kind of bargain hunting did for us" \

Whether or not you used the word "obvious" is irrelevant, you implied that Woodson, Saturday, and Benson were all clear moves even without the aid of hindsight.

How did Cullen Jenkins, Justin Babin, and Greg Jennings work out for their respective teams? Yes Avril and Bennett worked, but you can paint any picture you want if you cherry pick the success stories and disregard the ones that didn't work.

play2win
11 years ago

Woodson appeared in 4 Pro Bowls with Oakland. 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001. He had a great start to his career, I agree. 5 years after his last Pro Bowl, he signed with the Packers. So you're saying 5 years after they peak, a player is still prime?

Average career length of a 1st round pick is 9.3 years. Woodson was entering his 9th year when GB signed him. His last 4 years were the worst of his 8 year career. He was coming off a seson in which he played only 6 games due to injury.

What part of this don't you understand? Woodson was washed up.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



Woodson was injured 4 times in his last 3 years in OAK. Do you recall what a complete shambles the OAK coaching staff was in his last two seasons with the team? They were the laughing stock of the NFL. Despite the injuries, they designated him their franchise player, TWICE after the fact. And, he certainly hadn't peaked, had he? "Washed up???"

He went onto 4 more Pro Bowls, won a SB and was designated Defensive Player of the Year.

What part of this don't YOU understand? I clearly stated there was risk with any FA signing. Again. Ted Thompson and his staff clearly did a good job of vetting him before they signed him. They could probably do that again if they chose to with another player.

My point is, if they choose not to by holding strictly to D&D for player procurement, they will never know. No big thing QCHuskerFan.
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