DoddPower
11 years ago

Tex is an example of someone who is pissing himself a bit.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Oh, I agree, but that guy is absolutely clueless about most things.

play2win
11 years ago

How many teams have more than four of the NFL's best at their positions?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Right. Not too many. I think SF, NO, SEA, KC, DEN, IND immediately come to mind.

And, what about the rest of the team? Are they bad players? Poor talents? Or, were they good talents who weren't properly developed? Personally, I believe Rodgers, Nelson, Sitton and Matthews were going to be stellar talents on nearly any NFL team. Sam Shields seems to be one of the few players up ticking, along with Mike Daniels.

I look at a player like BJ Raji, who was a very, very good player at his position his first two seasons, and he has certainly regressed. Hawk had some great years, namely 2010. His productivity went way down for a couple of seasons before turning things around this year, and even with that, it might be too late for him. Same with Tramon Williams, who has seen his better days.

Finley was supposed to be this world beater, but he never really busted the top 10 at his position. At times these past 4 or 5 years I've wondered if McCarthy knew how to use 2 TEs… but, that's besides the point. How many seasons did we suffer with him experiencing drops, and no accountability. He was a "superstar," and McCarthy treated him as such, pretty much hands-off. He looked to be developing into the player we all hoped he would be after what? 5 or 6 years? Sad that he went down.

I don't know. I'm just frustrated that this team is not better. I thought McMillian would develop into a good player. Same for Burnett. Both have taken big turns in the opposite direction. Worthy? I thought we would get more out of him. Starks has had availability issues, but he doesn't see the ball much even when he's healthy. I had big hopes for Hayward and Franklin, both players waylaid by injury.

I want to mention Pickett, because he has been a ROCK for this team for his entire tenure in GB. He's just older now, playing on a bad wheel this year and not as effective.

All in all, I would say other coaches could get more out of the players we have. We could easily do away with Capers, Lovat and Campen. I'd love to see some accountability, something I have not seen in years in GB.
DoddPower
11 years ago

All in all, I would say other coaches could get more out of the players we have. We could easily do away with Capers, Lovat and Campen. I'd love to see some accountability, something I have not seen in years in GB.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



While I don't agree with your overall premise in other posts in this thread, I do tend to agree with this. I just think that setting a standard of acceptance of mediocrity can be infectious throughout the entire organization.

dhazer
11 years ago

While I don't agree with your overall premise in other posts in this thread, I do tend to agree with this. I just think that setting a standard of acceptance of mediocrity can be infectious throughout the entire organization.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



This kind of goes with the oh we should have won that game we are the better team statements we seem to hear alot from the players. Wel are not that great face it the Lions kicked our asses and were the better team on that day. I don't remember what I predicted like an 8-8 season or 9-7 because I don't see all the so called talent on this team.

Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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play2win
11 years ago

While I don't agree with your overall premise in other posts in this thread, I do tend to agree with this. I just think that setting a standard of acceptance of mediocrity can be infectious throughout the entire organization.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



The only reason I've mentioned McCarthy, is that he is the one who should be making these calls. One of our MAIN points of emphasis this offseason, was player availability. Only a fool continues making the same mistakes over and over, expecting different results = LOVAT. Same holds true for CAPERS, who has set All-Time records for ineptitude on his defenses, and CAMPEN, who has not coached up his OL to be complete players. Aaron Rodgers was the most sacked QB dating back to 2009, with 168 sacks 2009-2012. Add another 18 before he was lost Week 9 to the broken collar bone.

McCarthy owns the responsibility to address all three of those coaches, and the poor jobs they've turned in. It has yet to happen. What does that say to the rest of the team?

I just can't accept we are always one of the most injured teams in the NFL, with nothing done to address the issue. What does that say?

Defensively, I do think Capers was forced to make do with lesser talents at key positions. Same may be true for Campen. Those issues might fall equally on the GM, Ted Thompson. When key players go down, if the development isn't there with the backups, a replacement needs to be found. Imagine if we had signed a top OT in the offseason or made a trade prior to the deadline, when we knew Bulaga was out, Sherrod was out, and Newhouse was struggling, and Don Barclay still somewhat untested. No backup C. This sometimes makes me wonder if there is a communication breakdown between the coaching staff and Thompson.

Honestly, I am really hoping this staff can pull their team together. Seems to be asking for the Moon right now.
musccy
11 years ago

Right. Not too many. I think SF, NO, SEA, KC, DEN, IND immediately come to mind.

And, what about the rest of the team? Are they bad players? Poor talents? Or, were they good talents who weren't properly developed? Personally, I believe Rodgers, Nelson, Sitton and Matthews were going to be stellar talents on nearly any NFL team. Sam Shields seems to be one of the few players up ticking, along with Mike Daniels.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I'm quoting a part of your posts but commenting on the general premise. I've read through some of your posts and it seems like unless they're currently healthy AND in contention for the P.B. they're poorly developed. It's not that black and white.

Brett Goode and Tim Masthay aren't flashy, but have they not been good players for the team? Jarrett Bush has been a good special teamer. Teams need role players as well.

You write off injured players like Sherrod, Worthy, Cobb and Bulaga, but is that a function of improper development? Have those players not shown potential?

Bakhtiari, has been at least servicable considering the circumstances as a 4th round rookie. When healthy, Perry has shown flashes as well.

We all saw the potential in Finley towards the end of the '09 season, especially vs. AZ and since then he has (at times) lost focus and developed a case of the drops. Same with Crosby last year. Sometimes players need to be held accountable too.

My point is that it's not cut and dry, nor can you say only 7.5% of the roster has been adequately developed, there's no accurate basis for that determination.



+1
steveishere
11 years ago

None of those players are top NFL performers. Collins was. Jennings was. Finley always had the potential. Is James Jones? I question that a bit. Raji? Daniels has potential. Lacy has potential.

My list could actually be paired down to Rodgers, Nelson, Sitton and Matthews. 4 of the NFL's best players at their positions. So, now we're talking 7.5%…

Daryn Colledge and Brad Jones flat out suck. Worthy, Raji, and Burnett are following close behind. Bulaga? Can't be great if you can't get out of the tub. James Jones and TJ Lang are good players who have done well for this team, but top NFL performers? Not sure about that.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



If you applied that standard to every team then pretty much no NFL team has good players.
+2
play2win
11 years ago

I'm quoting a part of your posts but commenting on the general premise. I've read through some of your posts and it seems like unless they're currently healthy AND in contention for the P.B. they're poorly developed. It's not that black and white.

Brett Goode and Tim Masthay aren't flashy, but have they not been good players for the team? Jarrett Bush has been a good special teamer. Teams need role players as well.

You write off injured players like Sherrod, Worthy, Cobb and Bulaga, but is that a function of improper development? Have those players not shown potential?

Bakhtiari, has been at least servicable considering the circumstances as a 4th round rookie. When healthy, Perry has shown flashes as well.

We all saw the potential in Finley towards the end of the '09 season, especially vs. AZ and since then he has (at times) lost focus and developed a case of the drops. Same with Crosby last year. Sometimes players need to be held accountable too.

My point is that it's not cut and dry, nor can you say only 7.5% of the roster has been adequately developed, there's no accurate basis for that determination.



Originally Posted by: musccy 



Yeah, our Long Snapper and our Punter are both pretty good.

My bigger point is the "draft & develop" philosophy is a very big part of their program. I love Randall Cobb. I do think he would be considered a top talent if he were still playing today. I love the David Bakhtiari pick, and I think he has done a remarkable job for a rookie. Nick Perry is a really good player when healthy - like him a lot. I pretty much kept rookies out of my line of thinking as the sample is too small. Lacy and Hyde could turn into remarkable talents, from what we've seen through 12 games.

But, if they employ "draft & develop" as their sole means of talent acquisition, then they had better be damn good at developing the talent they draft and sign as UDFAs. I'm questioning the real development that we are seeing, or not seeing.

All of this is super interesting to me. I'm not saying one person is right or wrong. Just looking at the scenery and what has transpired. You are right that it is not as cut and dry as I may have intimated. I was just pointing out we have 4 players who would be considered top talents at their positions, through this draft and develop strategy. if this is indeed a great strategy, should we be expecting more? If we are not seeing more, then why? Is it the players Thompson is acquiring, or is there a lack of development on the coaching end?

Odd thought on this. Our WR and RB development seems pretty solid. CBs seem pretty good in general. DL and OL have been question marks. LB, kind of a question mark. S development has been an issue since Collins went down. TEs? eh. QBs? Boy, after Rodgers, there isn't much to speak of. STs? Our coverage has been atrocious, as has been our return game.

I do question accountability. Players and coaches alike. Haven't seen it, and I do find that a bit troubling as a fan. Just a bunch of lip service these past 4 seasons.
play2win
11 years ago

If you applied that standard to every team then pretty much no NFL team has good players.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I'm not talking about applying that as a standard. Just looking at what we are doing really with draft & develop.

For instance, don't you think we would have a DL make the list of top DL in the NFL, I mean, just make a list that runs 48 deep? Nope.

Kick Returners? Nope.

Punt Returners? Nope.

INTs? Nope.

RB? Lacy at #10

WR? Nelson at #17, Jones at #48 (And, that's without Rodgers since week 9)

I think from this it is pretty clear our D and STs Coordinators leave a little to be desired, and our WR and RB coaches are actually looking pretty damn good given the circumstances.
Zero2Cool
11 years ago

I'm not talking about applying that as a standard. Just looking at what we are doing really with draft & develop.

For instance, don't you think we would have a DL make the list of top DL in the NFL, I mean, just make a list that runs 48 deep? Nope.

Kick Returners? Nope.

Punt Returners? Nope.

INTs? Nope.

RB? Lacy at #10

WR? Nelson at #17, Jones at #48 (And, that's without Rodgers since week 9)

I think from this it is pretty clear our D and STs Coordinators leave a little to be desired, and our WR and RB coaches are actually looking pretty damn good given the circumstances.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



KR and PR was handled by Randall Cobb who did quite well.

INT's ... Packers have had the most INT's or right there at the top for several years ... this year being the exception.

RB ... Packers are a passing team ... they have that mediocre guy named Aaron Rodgers so ...

WR ... Come one ... the Packers have had probably half dozen WR that could start for any team in the NFL at either the 1 or 2.



Your expectations are unrealistic in the salary cap era. Wait and see how the Seahawks and 49ers do when they have to pay their QB's after their rookie contracts. lol

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